Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole conversation about rural meat packing plants always drives me crazy. They moved them to rural locations, where by definition very few people live, and then suddenly a hundreds of dudes from rural Mexico showed up to work there. So naturally we talk about Americans being lazy and racist when they complain.
If your entire problem with that cycle is the mexicans who end up working those jobs it's not ridiculous to consider that racism plays a significant role lol.
Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
131–140 of 190 posts
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it's not child slave labor, its kids trying to make money. It's price dumping by abusing children who're happy to have a couple dollars to spend on Fortnite characters or whatever the rage is these days. Pay your workers fairly.
These kids are not doing this to spend money on frivolous things like Fortnite. They are almost certainly migrant children who need the money because they’ve been placed with guardians who themselves are barely getting by or are exploiting the children by making them work off a debt. There was a massive nytimes expose on the issue which is driving the uptick in enforcement. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/25/us/unacc…
> They are almost certainly migrant children who need the money because they’ve been placed with guardians who themselves are barely getting by
s/migrant/poor, but otherwise I 100% agree.
Kids from poor families want to be able to help with money if they can. Their contributions do help, too, and I don't think that's a bad thing in most cases.
Growing up poor, realizing your parents' financial situation, working hard to contribute to it, and then busting your ass to build a live that's better than your parents... that's the American Dream that I knew growing up. It's also the story of the vast majority of successful local entrepreneurs that I know in my local area.
I don't want that to go away. I think it's an important part of our culture.
> or are exploiting the children by making them work off a debt
I'm very confident that this happens. I don't have a good feel for how often, but I doubt it's even close to the majority case. I'm sure it still happens, though, and that's something that I fully support aggressively stamping out.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are millions of undocumented workers in the US using fake identities to get jobs. How is this related to the story? The story is about companies using children as workers in hazardous job. It’s illegal regardless of their documentation status. Iowa has proposed bill to to legalize exactly this. This is happening because companies don’t want to pay fair wage.
Presumably the children in question lied about their age when they signed up. The most likely scenario is the meat plant offered them the best wage-earning opportunity in the area. If there aren't systems to verify who workers really are then the meat plant might not have had an easy way to find out. Seems plausible as theories go although obviously I only read this press release and moved on. I mean; if the likely o…
https://www.kcur.org/news/2023-02-17/child-labor-packers-san...
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in the area where Tyson has most of its poultry operations, and I know a few people who work for them fairly well - including a couple who are working there under false identities due to immigration status. Tyson knows. They couldn't _not_ know. They seem to maintain an acceptable level of "plausible deniability" at least, and I've not seen any evidence that they're explicitly allowing it to happen, or even th…
Of course Tyson knows. Cheaper labor directly translates to increased profits. If Tyson and other megacorporations don't encourage this practice, they are leaving money on the table and violating their fiduciary duty.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#135There are millions of undocumented workers in the US using fake identities to get jobs. Both major parties support this system. Some Republican interests enjoy the access to dirt-cheap labor. Some Democratic interests want immigrants to be able to find jobs despite it being illegal to employ them. So we end up with a system where employers have no easy way to verify that an employee is who they say they are and has a…
Democrats want the cheap labor as well, as illustrated famously: "Who's going to clean your toilets Donald Trump?"[0] [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a8INEYLFWwc
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your entire problem with that cycle is the mexicans who end up working those jobs it's not ridiculous to consider that racism plays a significant role lol.
The problem is that the company is blatantly trying to undermine the labor protections and quality of life my ancestors fought hard for.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#137this is why food is cheap people. I used to drive corn and pea combines in high school, and in the farming community it's not uncommon to have kids driving tractors as well (granted this is usually a family run farm). It's likely that the people working in the factories there knew the kids or families and made an exception to allow them to start early (still technically illegal I know). it's not child slave labor, it…
Helping out on the family farm is in its own category, in my opinion. For one thing, the parents are probably actually supervising. So they are probably taking some measures to ensure the child is not dismembered. Most parents do have a strong interest in making sure their children aren't wounded or killed. It becomes a different question when we're talking dozens of kids working in a corporate meat processing plant.…
The Norman Rockwell image in popular culture of an American small family farm with kids building character helping out next to their parents produces less than 20% of US agricultural output today. The vast majority of farms (by volume, not by population) are much larger corporate operations, making over $1M/year, with the labor not reporting to Mom and Dad but to some plant supervisor.
Side note, I dispute that the "middle class and elites" would genuinely rather perpetuate these conditions than face even a few % increase in the price of food if given that choice. The problem is that this proposition assumes perfectly rational, fully-informed consumers, and that's not reality. It's impossible to know at the supermarket if a package is colored green and has a picture of a happy cow on it because it's from an environmentally responsible small family farm that treats their dairy cows with kindness or if that's just the packaging that polled well with the focus group, allowing Cargill or whoever to make even more profit. I'd personally be happy to pay a few percent more for my food if it would reduce pesticide and herbicide pollution, reduce single-use plastics, improve work conditions. But the people making those decisions have no realistic way to communicate with me (aside from the plastics I can see in the store, though too often the brown cardboard packaging is just to win my purchase and actually hides a plastic coating that makes it the worst of both worlds). The only real signal that's accurately transmitted is the price, and it should be obvious that uninformed consumers will choose the cheaper option.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Presumably the children in question lied about their age when they signed up. That’s not true though. The company knew exactly what they were doing and still they went ahead and doubled down on it. Excerpt from article: “Our investigation found Packers Sanitation Services’ systems flagged some young workers as minors, but the company ignored the flags. When the Wage and Hour Division arrived with warrants, the adul…
Probably. They did just lose a big court case. But if I ask "how old are you?" in an interview and reject anyone who says "17", then all the interviewees are going to say "18". Kids are pretty dumb but they can figure this stuff out. I'd be happy to claim 10 years of Kubernetes experience if I thought it would give me an advantage in the job market, no question. The children in question are already violating local la…
Children did not, under their own agency, seek out exploitative employment. We recognize that, as minors, their nominal consent is immaterial in the face of the overwhelming comparative sophistication of adults and adult institutions.
The kids did not figure this stuff out; the adults in the room did.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in the area where Tyson has most of its poultry operations, and I know a few people who work for them fairly well - including a couple who are working there under false identities due to immigration status. Tyson knows. They couldn't _not_ know. They seem to maintain an acceptable level of "plausible deniability" at least, and I've not seen any evidence that they're explicitly allowing it to happen, or even th…
Of course Tyson knows. Cheaper labor directly translates to increased profits. If Tyson and other megacorporations don't encourage this practice, they are leaving money on the table and violating their fiduciary duty.
Re: Over 100 kids illegally employed in hazardous jobs, contractor pays $1.5M fine
#140I'd never let any of my kids work in a meat processing facility. The danger element alone with combined with unpredictable children sounds like The Jungle just waiting to happen again. Still 100 kids out of all the employees seems like a really small fraction, to the point where I wonder if these kids were all related to employees. I've got little sympathy for the company here, but seeing how scarce certain items are…
I did, both as a child and as an adult.
It wasn't driven by financial need, though, which is obviously a huge difference. In my case it was because I wanted to contribute to my uncle's small business.
I did whatever was needed at the "meat shop" during summer vacation when I was a young teen. Sometimes that was working the front desk and selling summer sausage, sometimes it was slaughtering hogs, and sometimes it was cleaning the slaughter room at the end of the day.
In return, I stayed at my family's farm during the summer. I had access to all their land and knowledge, was provided room and board, and got a small wage. I was also able to hunt that land in the fall and invite friends to come stay there during hunting season to hunt with me.
> Still 100 kids out of all the employees seems like a really small fraction
These were contractors, weren't they? It could have been all of their employees
> to the point where I wonder if these kids were all related to employees
Based on my knowledge of that community, I'd say that's extremely likely. It was probably a mix of kids working in lieu of paying for child care when not in school and kids that weren't in school for whatever reasons (including lacking documentation to get in, not knowing enough English yet, and some dropping out early due to social or behavioral issues). Most or all of their parents likely worked in the same plant.