If the Vapor aspect works well then this might make air source heat pumps tenable in cold countries. The current crop here in the UK are costing home owners a fortune as the 3-4 kw multiplier drops to 1 below 0degC or so and hearing becomes horrifically expensive. I know a chap who was paying £1,200 a month to hear is home at the worst of this winters cold and the energy price jumps we have here.
Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#12Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick.
What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited?
This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want some guarantees that I can control it entirely myself.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#13Any idea what the pricing will be like?
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#14This is interesting but many systems like it fall at the first hurdle in countries like Britain where forced air is not the norm. How are products like this supposed to work in a house that is currently optimised for radiators and combi-boilers and with no existing air ducts?
You can either move the air (via ductwork) or the coolant with a small insulated pipe.
The question is where do you have the exchange. The central / forced air tends to be a furnace in the basement. But its also viable to have a ductless mini-split heat pump ( https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/ductless-mini-split-heat-... ) that just moves the heat carrying fluid to a room and then have that room with an exchange.
> Ductless, mini-split-system heat pumps (mini-splits) make good retrofit add-ons to houses with "non-ducted" heating systems, such as hydronic (hot water heat), radiant panels, and space heaters (wood, kerosene, propane). They can also be a good choice for room additions where extending or installing distribution ductwork is not feasible, and for very efficient new homes that require only a small space conditioning system. Be sure to choose an ENERGY STAR® compliant unit and hire an installer familiar with the product and its installation.
> Like standard air-source heat pumps, mini-splits have two main components -- an outdoor compressor/condenser and an indoor air-handling unit. A conduit, which houses the power cable, refrigerant tubing, suction tubing, and a condensate drain, links the outdoor and indoor units.
> The main advantages of mini-splits are their small size and flexibility for zoning or heating and cooling individual rooms. Many models can have as many as four indoor air-handling units (for four zones or rooms) connected to one outdoor unit. The number depends on how much heating or cooling is required for the building or each zone. This can be affected by how well the building is insulated and air sealed). Each of the zones has its own thermostat, so you only need to condition occupied spaces, which can save energy and money.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#15Existing established companies offer centrally ducted heat pumps. You can purchase them direct, and are even sold by your big box home improvement stores. (search for "ducted heat pump)
They are generally contractor only as homeowners generally can't DIY the 240v electrical and lineset hookup. What exactly is being improved upon by your startup?
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#16Who are you partnering with to design/manufacture your air handler and condenser units?
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#17Any idea what the pricing will be like?
There is a pricing section on the website.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#18Can someone install and use it without the app?
We will have standard home integrations (Google Home, Apple Homekit, likely implemented via Matter standard). Using those you can set temperature easily, however to have deeper insight into system state, energy use, air quality, you'd have to use the app. We could also set up the thermostat so it can be used standalone - no app integration.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#19So the difference in cost between natural gas and ElectricAir is ~ 400/yr. And it costs $14,000 to install the ElectricAir system. It will take a very long time to break even.
It will be very difficult to convince people with current working natural gas system to switch over.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#20I see an “App” section, but it’s pretty light on details.
Is the plan for it to be cloud driven (both app and thermostat connect to a remote server) or will there be a local network API? Zigbee/Thread?
I can see some real value in a system that is fully accessible to a home automation platform.