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Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

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Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#51

Post by jff »

Nelson69 wrote: post #45

I see this a couple ways. If you pull binaries off the internet, it's hard to say you can just ignore it and don't need any protection. That is exactly the kind of thinking that got us to where we are with malware in the first place. I just can't see a downside to scanning your system once a week after hours or something like that; most of the time it will find nothing but if it ever finds anything it's probably wort…

Qubes (http://qubes-os.org/Home.html) sort of aims to use virtualization to separate out all your software. It's Linux, though.

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#52

Post by jff »

bwarp wrote: post #20

I've come to the conclusion that AV software gets more attrocious the more you pay for it or the more it requires advertising every 5 minutes on television. They push it on you via scaremongering every day at least once. HOWEVER, I've been using Microsoft's free security essentials package for Windows 7 for about 2 years. It never pokes you in the eye, never lets a single thing through and doesn't screw your system r…

I like MS Security Essentials because, basically, I've already said "I'm willing to trust Microsoft for my system software." Norton, Symantec, McAfee, they all are terrible companies that I'd happily keep off my hard drive given the choice; when I'm using Windows, I've already accepted MS. Plus, since MS knows their OS better than others, they've managed to make a security system which doesn't bring a brand new machine to its knees.

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#53

Post by someone13 »

There seems to be a lot of hate for antiviruses here on HN. I have this question, then - what kind of features would YOU want from an antivirus? If a startup was to launch tomorrow with some sort of antivirus or similar product, what would it need to have for you to buy/subscribe/etc.?

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#54

Post by cagey »

someone13 wrote: post #53

There seems to be a lot of hate for antiviruses here on HN. I have this question, then - what kind of features would YOU want from an antivirus? If a startup was to launch tomorrow with some sort of antivirus or similar product, what would it need to have for you to buy/subscribe/etc.?

A flawless uninstaller!

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#55

Post by pnathan »

jff wrote: post #50
pnathan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a Windows program for my dad about a year ago. It would have worked great. I was thinking about selling it, actually! Except, the antivirus flagged it. I called the AV vendor and they (probably the first-line tech support) said unless that my dad called the vendor, they could do nothing . The only false positive that might be remotely reasonable is my executable name is identical to a virus. rte.exe or someth…

So you spent the time to write a program, one good enough to consider selling it even, but couldn't be bothered to try changing the executable name? Or ask your dad to call the AV vendor? Am I mis-reading you?

I did ask my dad to call. Nothing seemed to come of it. I was working in a hurry and didn't think to simply change the exe name, making the presumption that such a simple thing shouldn't influence the AV decision.

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#56

Post by politician »

freehunter wrote: post #49
joering2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oh, the business of fear mongering." couldnt agree more. I am using PC with XP/7 for years now and never had a virus. I go online into some questionable websites and downloads sometimes but if user uses a common sense, he wont open that AllPrinterDrivers.exe from unknown source just to install drivers to his printer. I never needed and I think I never will need an AV.

Until you get hit with a zero-day browser exploit that doesn't need you to install an exe to run.

Question: if he's hit with a zero-day exploit, how does having AV installed help?

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#57

Post by polymatter »

freehunter wrote: post #49
joering2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oh, the business of fear mongering." couldnt agree more. I am using PC with XP/7 for years now and never had a virus. I go online into some questionable websites and downloads sometimes but if user uses a common sense, he wont open that AllPrinterDrivers.exe from unknown source just to install drivers to his printer. I never needed and I think I never will need an AV.

Until you get hit with a zero-day browser exploit that doesn't need you to install an exe to run.

how will AV help against zero-day browser exploit? Zero-day, by their very definition, have no antivirus definition that will catch them yet.

On my personal machine, I don't run any anti-virus software, but I also don't use adobe pdf and enable flash only on sites I trust.

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#58

Post by politician »

Craiggybear wrote: post #30

Well, if you will dabble away in Windows, this is bound to happen. Stop writing for it and it'll go away. Man: "Doctor! Doctor! It hurts when I do this!" Doctor: "Well, stop doing that ..."

Doctor: Furthermore, start doing the same thing (developing software) to the other one (Linux) because it's .. Er.. fresh.

Man: Wait, but won't the other one start hurting because I'm using it more?

Doctor: Oh right, I guess if everyone switching to use Linux tomorrow, then the malware authors would begin targeting it more aggressively. I supposed my anti-Microsoft rant was misplaced.

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#59

Post by polymatter »

bad_user wrote: post #40
johngalt wrote: post #29

IT guy here: Anti-virus tools are a net loss, but we can't remove them without appearing to be irresponsible.

Sure you can. Replace it with a simple app that randomly shows fake notifications for threats, with a clickable button called "remove threat" that doesn't do anything. Upon clicking, show some stats on how many fake threats were dodged. (1) you won't be seen as irresponsible anymore (2) since users will constantly receive threat warnings, they'll be more careful than usual, improving security

Great idea, but like many similar ideas (eugenics, human experimentation, doctors prescribing placebos, licence to breed) too 'unethical'.

Re: Why Developers Hate Antiviruses

#60

Post by tikhonj »

someone13 wrote: post #53

There seems to be a lot of hate for antiviruses here on HN. I have this question, then - what kind of features would YOU want from an antivirus? If a startup was to launch tomorrow with some sort of antivirus or similar product, what would it need to have for you to buy/subscribe/etc.?

Is an anti-virus even the right approach, especially for an experienced user? Wouldn't some sort of permissions management (maybe like SELinux or AppArmor) coupled with a firewall be just as secure? Getting the majority of your software from a repository (e.g. with yum or apt-get) also seems like it would help significantly.

I'm not a security expert, but it seems like you can have a perfectly secure computer without an anti-virus.

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