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“Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

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Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#81

What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. It seems to come entirely from propaganda on social media telling fat people what they want to believe.

It’s because American society doesn’t let being unhealthy be an affirmative choice. You either need to demonstrate some kind of shame for your unhealthiness or some kind rationale that explains how its actually healthy. The honest facts that “I like to eat tasty good” and “I don’t really enjoy too much physical activity” are only permissible if you also say “and I can’t help myself” or “and it’s actually not unhealth…

My perception is the opposite. The US is a place where you absolutely can slap your beer gut and make a joke about “having a keg instead of a 6 pack”

Perhaps your social circle doesn’t accept that attitude, but in some of the most obese parts of the country, the norm is to “eat some steak and potatoes and put some meat on your bones, skinny boy”

There’s a reason doctors are afraid to tell patients they’re overweight. People interpret it as a personal attack on their choices rather than a medical diagnosis.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#82

What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. It seems to come entirely from propaganda on social media telling fat people what they want to believe.

It’s because American society doesn’t let being unhealthy be an affirmative choice. You either need to demonstrate some kind of shame for your unhealthiness or some kind rationale that explains how its actually healthy. The honest facts that “I like to eat tasty good” and “I don’t really enjoy too much physical activity” are only permissible if you also say “and I can’t help myself” or “and it’s actually not unhealth…

This really resonates with me. I spend a lot of time pathologizing my habits and preferences.

The thought goes: If I am not doing things the way others do, I must be mentally ill somehow and in need of a cure.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#83

There’s really no getting around the fact that you need to live an active life of consuming things in moderation to be healthy.

The challenge is what is the closest hack to get around it, as most people, admittedly myself included, are not willing to exercise? Semaglutide seems to be the best bet right now.

> as most people, admittedly myself included, are not willing to exercise?

I'll never get that, we only get one shot at life, even a few hours of exercise per _week_ will greatly increase your quality of life and healthy life span, there are no better medicine, nothing will give you your body back once it's too late. Some people on this forum will grind 60+ (even much more) hours per week at work, absolutely wrecking their body for "success" just to be shadow of themselves at 40. I see it everywhere online "after 40 everything hurt" "I can't sneak on my kids because my knees pop at every steps". What a sad state of affair...

Get out there, get in shape, it's life's best cheat code, everything gets better, your body evolved for that very thing for hundred millions of years, you don't even need that much dedication or time. Learn to master your body, learn about nutrition, learn self control. Run, swim, climb, lift weight, yoga, dance, try everything and keep what you enjoy

I'll always remember the day a 60+ years old climber absolutely humiliated me on the wall by effortlessly completing a climb on the first try while I couldn't even get to the half point, I was 25 and in what I though was a good shape

Not exercising is like buying a high performance car and waiting for the engine check light to do an oil change. Take care of your body, once it's gone it's gone

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#84

What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. It seems to come entirely from propaganda on social media telling fat people what they want to believe.

Simply put, it’s an enabling belief. Being obese isn’t a root cause. It is a symptom of something else. Particularly, when it is a symptom of depression, believing in “healthy obesity” can be enabling even if it’s not the truth. That person (not statistic) needs to see themselves as healthy and loved to have a chance at being healthy. Telling them to eat better or exercise is thinking about yourself in a generic vers…

It they see themselves just as healthy as obese, why would they want not to be obese?

Sounds like enabling obesity to me.

Telling them to eat better or exercise doesn't work because it's a pain in the ass to be in a caloric deficit. They have statistically low dopamine levels (among other markers being out of wack) so they just don't have the mental fuel to deal with doing what's hard. That's what lead them to be obese in the first place, seeking comfort in food, sitting on their butt and avoiding the harshness of their reality.

Another key component are high cortisol levels (ie chronic stress due to past traumas causing depression and other mental illnesses), hindering the parasympathetic brain to switch on digestive metabolism.

You don't solve all these underling issues by saying "hey fat isn't that bad, you can still be healthy being heavy".

Like you wouldn't say to a drug addict "hey drugs aren't that bad for you" to make them feel less shitty about their situation.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#85
post #26

I don’t know if we’re capable of pushing against the tipping point, but if feels like it will be arduous to return to a point where being obese is frowned upon and not hidden under figleaves. We have an entire body positivity movement that makes people feel good about obesity. Culturally we’ve come to celebrate it. How do we expect people to keep fit under this culture? The main interests that benefit are junkfood on…

In what world are you living? Being obese is and always has been frowned upon. There is a small faction of people who believe that nobody should be treated poorly for having a body that doesn't fit an ideal. You specifically say that body positivity "makes people feel good about obesity". Which, said another way, seems like you think "people should feel bad if they are fat". Why would you wish for someone to feel bad? Assuming you believe that fatness is failing caused by something wrong with a person, do you also believe that depressed people should feel bad because there is something wrong with them? Do you believe people with PTSD should feel bad because there is something wrong with them?

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#86
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are several reasons: 1. Historically being fat was considered a sign of good health. Of course, this was during times of massive food scarcity and the definition of fat was probably very different from what we consider fat today. 2. Massive amounts of money involved in telling people to eat/drink more, and then spend more money in gyms and taking pills to lose that weight. As opposed to just eating less…

I'm interested in 3. Is there any research or data about that? I do not encourage fat shaming at all, but I can also imagine that in some cases shame may be a powerful motivator for some people. Is there hard data showing that it actually makes it harder?

What is the control group for your proposed experiment and how can I join it?

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#87

What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. It seems to come entirely from propaganda on social media telling fat people what they want to believe.

I think there are several reasons: 1. Historically being fat was considered a sign of good health. Of course, this was during times of massive food scarcity and the definition of fat was probably very different from what we consider fat today. 2. Massive amounts of money involved in telling people to eat/drink more, and then spend more money in gyms and taking pills to lose that weight. As opposed to just eating less…

[dead]

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#88
post #55

Thinking obesity is one number is as dumb as thinking intelligence is one number. Card counting used to be one number, till they realized how much better two numbers did. Yet in this day of smart phones, one still sees geriatricians calculating stroke risk using a rule they can do in their heads. I'd rather trust my health care to prediction markets, if we could work through the data privacy issues. So where's the BM…

> BMI You don't need to look at BMI, or any number besides fat % for that matter, to see we have a massive fucking issue. If your belly protrudes far enough that you can't see your own feet, big boned or not, you're obese Obesity is BMI 30+, unless you're a semi-pro/pro athlete or have genetic defects at 30+ BMI you're definitely fat af, here are examples of 30 BMI: https://www.lipedema.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08…

Does the bodybuilder has 30 BMI cause of muscle weight?

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#89

I think the article is arguing that there is such a thing as being healthy with a high BMI? It's just that those people generally don't have an excessively high body fat %. But if we are going by BMI, there are plenty of people who have "healthy obesity", on account of muscle mass. I've been working out for many years and I think I have a healthy body fat percentage but since I'm not very thin its hard to tell withou…

Nobody who is jacked has ever been considered obese. This weird "gotcha" about bodybuilders and alike having the BMI of an obese person and being healthy is a meaningless edge cases that tries to stray away discussions. The vast majority of people are not gym rats, thus their BMI roughly corresponds to their fat levels, correctly approximating overweightness and obesity.

Are bodybuilders really healthy though? I'm sure it's healthier than being obese but the kind of pressure they put on their body, I wonder if that doesn't cause problems. Like with most things done in extreme amounts of course. Many top athletes also have major issues later in life.

And that's not even mentioning the hormones..

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#90
Before you draw conclusions from the headline, please look at the graph from the linked paper [1]. Pay attention to the size of the error bars. It looks like there is an effect, but it's not the huge and obvious realisation that the article claims.

I do think that body composition (size/fat/muscle mass) has an effect on your health, but the variance within groups is still huge! There are so many other things in your life that can affect your health, that also have a huge effect size.

So even if you are overweight or obese, and you can't lose weight, it doesn't mean that you can't improve your health. Eating healthy, making sure to get enough fresh air, limiting alcohol and nicotine use, taking care of your mental health and stress level are all going to benefit your health, even if they don't make you lose weight.

The same thing goes if you have a healthy weight and lots of muscle mass: Your body composition is not a free pass to smoke, get drunk every weekend, and eat burgers every day.

[1]: https://assets.realclear.com/images/44/446325_5_.png

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