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Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

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Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#511
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t understand why folks on the internet are so passionate about the depositors being hit by this. In terms of avoiding moral hazard they are about as far down the list as possible, and bankruptcy law supports that. First stock holders get wiped out (common then preferred), then debt holders (folks who have lent money to SVB won’t get their money back), only then would it hit depositors - and in the case of…

> just don’t understand why folks on the internet are so passionate about the depositors being hit by this. I think most of America can’t even imagine having over $250k in an account. So people with this much wealth asking for a bailout is literally rich people asking for coverage because they did something dumb (banked with a bad bank, didn’t account for risk, didn’t insure, didn’t manage funds). It’s not hate so mu…

It's mostly businesses though, not people. If you have >1 employee you def. should have at least 250K in the bank.

Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#512
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t understand why folks on the internet are so passionate about the depositors being hit by this. In terms of avoiding moral hazard they are about as far down the list as possible, and bankruptcy law supports that. First stock holders get wiped out (common then preferred), then debt holders (folks who have lent money to SVB won’t get their money back), only then would it hit depositors - and in the case of…

> just don’t understand why folks on the internet are so passionate about the depositors being hit by this. I think most of America can’t even imagine having over $250k in an account. So people with this much wealth asking for a bailout is literally rich people asking for coverage because they did something dumb (banked with a bad bank, didn’t account for risk, didn’t insure, didn’t manage funds). It’s not hate so mu…

> So people with this much wealth asking for a bailout is literally rich people asking for coverage because they did something dumb

Not people. Businesses.

SVB, to my knowledge, mostly consisted of businesses with some well-off individuals mixed in.

If we want to punish rich people for the crime of being rich, SVB is likely a bad battlefield because zero-ing out its customers will almost entirely hurt employees who are generally not wealthy.

Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#513
This is the only way.

The moment that the government guarantees or bails out deposits above the FDIC limit, taxpayers assume all risk over the entire banking sector and losses are socialized. That would be the official start of the end of free market economy.

There's a well traveled process to winding down a bank and recovering what is left for depositors. Let's not try to fix what isn't broken.

Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#514
post #445

I have a really dumb question. If my spouse and I have a checking account and a savings account at the same US Bank, does the 250K limit apply to the total of both accounts or each account separately? Say we have 200K in checking and 200K in savings. Would we get 400K from FIDC or just 250K total? Thanks

The limit applies to all your accounts at the bank combined. However you and your spouse each get $250K worth of insurance, so in this case it'll be $500K.

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Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#515
post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you propose a company with millions in cash keep that money if not a bank?

My first suggestion would be as T-Bills. I've asked a lot of questions on HN in the past few days about this, and I'm still not sure why it was not standard practice. Why people in position of authority trust bank deposits after 2008 I do not understand.

Isn’t that exactly what SVB did?

(EDIT - see replies below for why it is not)

Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#516
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people won’t make payroll, and employees who have no responsibility won’t get paid This gets repeated over and over, but just like depositors have the highest priority to a failed bank's assets, so do employees of any failed company. So, if a company goes bankrupt because it can't access funds stored with a bank, first stockholders would get wiped out, then debt holders, and only then employees (when talking about…

It gets repeated over and over again because if SVB money is locked up for weeks/months while they unwind positions startups won’t be able to make payroll.

So they will use cash flow or sell assets. The biggest risk is large coordinated layoffs affecting the job market, but there are other ways the government can intervene to protect individuals if that gets too dire.

Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#517
“ Janet Yellen said on Sunday that the US government was working closely with banking regulators to help depositors at Silicon Valley Bank but dismissed the idea of a bailout. Speaking with CBS on Sunday, the treasury secretary sought to assure US customers of the failed tech lender that policies were being discussed to stem the fallout from the sudden collapse this week. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporate (FDIC) took control of the bank on Friday morning. “Let me be clear that during the financial crisis, there were investors and owners of systemic large banks that were bailed out . . . and the reforms that have been put in place means we are not going to do that again,” Yellen said. “But we are concerned about depositors, and we’re focused on trying to meet their needs.”

Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#518

I see a lot of unexpected saltiness and clear misconceptions in any thread about SVB. “Depositors shouldn’t get anything beyond the insured $250,000”. Then what do we do with the billions in remaining assets? Appropriate them, and leave small and mid businesses hanged to dry? “This is a bailout”. It would be if shareholders were to get their money back, which doesn’t seem likely. The government will use the bank asse…

There's a middle ground here that few people seem to have.

1. There should be no bailout.

2. The bank had a ton of assets and those assets still belong to the depositors.

3. The depositors shouldn't necessarily be made whole beyond their $250,000 insured amount, but denying them the bank deposits is also wrong. Getting 80 cents on the dollar for their deposits seems completely fine for example, or whatever that number turns out to be based on remaining assets.

4. Nothing is deserved to the bank owners/shareholders. If there happens to be more assets than there was deposits, then this money can go to owners/shareholders.

Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#519
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's coming from the same system that probably led you to work at Startups your whole career. High risk for high reward on a lightly regulated capitalist system. If your CEO or CFO put all the money in one risky bank, it was bad financial management.

What bank do you use? When was the last time you went over their deposit base and asset allocation?

[deleted]

Re: Yellen says government will help SVB depositors but rules out bailout

#520
I think there is a lot of confusion around bail-out vs bail-in. The Dodd Frank act 2010 rules out bail-out but opens the door for bail-in. In a bail-in uninsured depositors are unsecured lenders. It gets a bit complicated as rules are different between countries and are open to both interpretation and case by case modification.

AFAIK this isn’t a bail-in as there is no attempt to save the bank. As the bank is in receivership the depositors get a receivership certificate and by FDIC law depositors get paid first before lenders and equity. I think possibly before secured lenders but I’m not sure. In liquidation preference is everything. Given the assets, even at fire sale prices, depositors should get most and possibly all of their money back. That would mean any bail-out would be to help the banks other lenders. I don’t know for sure but I assume those would be other banks, so I guess it would be sold as an idea to limit contagion. I’m anti-bail-out. Depositors can borrow against receivership certificates to get some liquidity. Obviously they’d pay a time and risk premium for that but better than going insolvent. I don’t have cash in bank account above FDIC limits yet I still have multiple accounts in different countries. Basically applying backup rules to banking to avoid a single point of failure. If a bank freezes my funds for whatever reason I would need money to be able to pay a lawyer to get them unfrozen. I heard SVB would punish customers (with higher fees I guess) who banked with multiple banks so not only did SVB have a very high percentage of uninsured deposits the depositors they did tended not to spread the risk around.

Now bail-ins are a totally different matter. Deposits above insurance unsecured liabilities and depending on the jurisdiction can be anywhere in the preference line from in the front to near the back (still in-front of equity which will always get hosed). This is very different to most people’s perceptions as they believe the bank is holding their money in trust which would put them first in line. Effectively (afaik) uninsured deposit amounts are insuring the insured deposit amounts as their deposits contributed to pool of assets that get paid out in liquidation. One of the reasons for a bail in is continuity of operation, new equity is issued (the old ones are deleted) and instead of receivership certificates which holders can use to get loans on a case by case basis the equity can be traded making it easier and cheaper to free up liquidity. Since the new bank will be solvent the assets won’t need to sold at fire sale prices. But the other aspect is the mingling of uninsured depositors with other lenders really has the potential to drastically increase the size of the haircut depositors can expect. While many of bail-in legislations seem to have loop-holes allowing this (some countries state it more explicitly) it seems unfathomable that such a thing would be done as that would destroy the false trust that people have in the financial system. Unless of course all off-ramps from banks are closed and people are stuck choosing between a bad deal from one bank and a bad deal from another bank.

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