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Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

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Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#151

Post by stale2002 »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #138
stale2002 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citation needed. I am not sure if you were aware, but there are a lot of houses in the world. In comparison, there aren't nearly as many high end, elite educational institutions. I think that you are more than capable of finding a citation yourself that proves that there are quite a lot more houses in the world, than there are top educational institutions.

>I am not sure if you were aware, but there are a lot of houses in the world. >In comparison, there aren't nearly as many high end, elite educational institutions. The college enrollment rate is under 70%, and I am not sure if you were aware, but the percentage of people in homes is much greater than this. I mean, you just proved the point I was making. High-end, elite, Division 1 schools overwhelmingly offer athleti…

> over 25% of the USA lives in HOA communities

You actually think that 25% of the US population live in the same exact HOA?

What is the singular HOA that currently covers 100 million people?

If 25% of the US housing market agreed to literally the exact same agreement, then yes, that would be an appropriate analogy.

Is that why you thought this was an equivalent analogy? Because you actually thought that 100 million people had agreed to the same market agreement?

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#152

Post by kergonath »

tophi wrote: post #97
coldtea wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of athletic scholarships are one of the few things they do absolutely right. The thing is that athletics are less, not more democratic as a distribution mechanism for admission slots A more basic problem with "athletic scholarships" is that being an athlete has absolutely nothing to do with being an academic/scholar/student of something else. It might be a good way to bring some publicity to the school, an…

A university is not just a place to go to learn anymore. It’s a big club that happens to be a place where you study. You bond and make lifelong friends. Also a great place to find a partner for life. Athletic departments are vital to the university system in American schools and their local economies.

> Also a great place to find a partner for life.

All I read here is “it’s a great tool for social reproduction and stratification”. This is dystopian. We’ve seen what this mindset gave with Oxbridge, and it is toxic.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#153

Post by mountainb »

coldtea wrote: post #110
tophi wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A university is not just a place to go to learn anymore. It’s a big club that happens to be a place where you study. You bond and make lifelong friends. Also a great place to find a partner for life. Athletic departments are vital to the university system in American schools and their local economies.

> A university is not just a place to go to learn anymore. It’s a big club that happens to be a place where you study. Yes. That should stop. > Athletic departments are vital to the university system in American schools and their local economies. That too.

If it's a big club, it's hard to justify the vast and ongoing federal support to the institutions through the grants, loan programs, and tax advantaged status.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#154

Post by itsacomment »

tophi wrote: post #97
coldtea wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of athletic scholarships are one of the few things they do absolutely right. The thing is that athletics are less, not more democratic as a distribution mechanism for admission slots A more basic problem with "athletic scholarships" is that being an athlete has absolutely nothing to do with being an academic/scholar/student of something else. It might be a good way to bring some publicity to the school, an…

A university is not just a place to go to learn anymore. It’s a big club that happens to be a place where you study. You bond and make lifelong friends. Also a great place to find a partner for life. Athletic departments are vital to the university system in American schools and their local economies.

The US college sports system is mainly a feeding ground for professional sports teams, and none of that is necessary for either education or social destratification.

It is only vital in the sense that people have vested interests in it, but it's not to the benefit of the students.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#155

Post by ClumsyPilot »

pyuser583 wrote: post #135
fsckboy wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post WWII period was a golden age for social progress. Along with the final collapse of colonial empires ruled over by royal families came a corresponding breaking down of class and overt ethnic/racial barriers in the West and America, with universities using test scores to open their doors to students of merit regardless of background or gender. but that golden age, having achieved remarkable success, is over. I…

Did life improve in the post-colonial world? There don’t seem to be too many 1950s era success stories in this regard.

> Did life improve in the post-colonial world? There don’t seem to be too many 1950s era success stories in this regard

"Prior to deindustrialisation, India was one of the largest economies in the world, accounting for approximately one quarter of the global economy.... The Indian economy specialised in industrialisation and manufacturing, accounting for at least one quarter of the world's manufacturing output before the 18th century."

in 1900 it was 2%. There were huge famines under Colonial rule, the kind that would male Mao proud.

India is doing so much better now, its not even comparable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De-industrialisation_of_Indi...

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#156

Post by llanowarelves »

mikeg8 wrote: post #14

Hate the headline as it downplays the terror and brutality that cartels inflict on the people of Mexico. Nobody is holding a gun to a football player head and forcing them to play for Harvard. Is there price fixing going on? Probably. But I don’t have very much sympathy for student athletes who had to pay full price to go to an Ivy league school… I’m sure they had more opportunities in life than the cartels give they…

There's a cartel, then there's The Cartel

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#157

Post by ClumsyPilot »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #122
stale2002 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metaphor is not appropriate because a HOA isn't limiting competition in any meaningful or significant way. Whether or not a couple houses in a couple block area, or 1 apartment building all "collude" to do something has very little effect on the competitive market of the massive housing industry. But large, major players in the education space ( each of which enrolls thousands of students), all agreeing together…

>Whether or not a couple houses in a couple block area, or 1 apartment building all "collude" to do something has very little effect on the competitive market of the massive housing industry. This is not correct. There are HOAs spanning dozens of miles, with and tens of thousands of homes. >But large, major players in the education space (each of which enrolls thousands of students), all agreeing together to do somet…

HOA's primary function is not to buy, sell and flip houses. They are not a market participant, they do not have any obligation towards the housing market.

Primary function of a univerisy is the education market.

It is shocking to see the nunber of 'free market' advocates that do not understand basic functions of a market

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#158

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

nmca wrote: post #82
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be blunt as someone who attended Oxford and was friend with someone who ended up coxing the Blue boat, nobody gives an actual shit about rowing there. It’s just a funny tradition. Colleges boat clubs are nice because the sport is great, the two bump races are fun and the mixers are rowdy. The Boat race is seen as a funny tradition and an excuse to compete with Cambridge. It is in no way as serious as academic leag…

^ this is not true (source: attended)

Your experience may vary from college to college but definitely true as far as I’m concerned.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#159

Post by johnnymorgan »

mountainb wrote: post #153
coldtea wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A university is not just a place to go to learn anymore. It’s a big club that happens to be a place where you study. Yes. That should stop. > Athletic departments are vital to the university system in American schools and their local economies. That too.

If it's a big club, it's hard to justify the vast and ongoing federal support to the institutions through the grants, loan programs, and tax advantaged status.

This!

I love the honesty in this thread, higher Eds main value prop, outside of stem, has been the connections made.

However, no one to my knowledge has validate that assumption and my gut is telling me it's probably BS for the majority of people.

Let's see how that holds up when QE doesn't come back. IMO it's mostly around deal flow and finance where this plays out and I'd guess the percentage is very small that walk away with that value.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#160

Post by whakim »

fsckboy wrote: post #126
whakim wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having competed in The Boat Race, this is unequivocally false at Oxford and Cambridge.

I know nothing about crew, who wins, etc. but: it may be the case that the wealth and elitism of "growing up rowing", like "growing up sailing, horseback riding, and playing polo and squash" is sufficient to to keep out the riffraff and the highly athletic boats crewed with also academically gifted rowers; but humans both group identify and are athletically highly competitive, even as spectators, and there's no way y…

Rowing is certainly an elite sport dominated by the socioeconomically well-off. I was simply making the point to the GP that unlike US institutions where rowers (and other athletes) are specifically recruited for their athletic talent, athletic prowess plays literally no role in the admissions process at Oxford and Cambridge. Rowers are not admitted "quietly and unofficially."
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