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KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

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Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#181

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #62
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #4

For e ti's shocking how much people are in denial about this. In spite of us seeing with our own eyes that this strategy is being deployed and it works, it works depressingly well. In spite of that, many people I know try to dismiss the video, the speaker, and the main message conveyed by it. It is as if we got blind by our own request.

Asserting that everyone is "seeing it with their own eyes" is kind of weird, since you can only see with your own eyes. It's a certain kind of solipsism that I'm personally getting rather tired of.

I see your point, I used this expression to emphasize the fact that it is not some abstract theory but something we are actually experiencing right now. I prefer not to give examples as these are the very issues that split our society and make some of the most heated discussions leaving everybody bitter and upset.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#182

Post by anonymousiam »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #127
anonymousiam wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's on the way to Biden's desk, and he has said that he will sign it. https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/08/tech/biden-tiktok-bill/index....

> A dozen US senators unveiled legislation on Tuesday called the Restricting the Emergence of Security Threats that Risk Information and Communications Technology (RESTRICT) Act. The bill does not target TikTok specifically for a ban. The bill does not target TikTok specifically for a ban. I don't see the problem.

It was written with TikTok in mind. It could be applied to Telegram just as well.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#183

Post by anonymousiam »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #126
anonymousiam wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, the US is about to ban TikTok. At first I thought they were only going to ban it for government and contractor devices, but it seems now that it will be banned for everyone. I don't use TikTok and probably never will, but how is this bill even constitutionally legal? I understand the concerns about data collection, but the USG seems more concerned about WHO is doing the collecting rather than the collecti…

1. The US hasn't banned TikTok yet. A lot of steps are there. 2. TikTok has CCP board members. So comparing it US companies is not fair.

Take my word for it, I am no fan of the CCP. That said, if you research the matter, you'll find that every major Chinese (PRC) company has CCP board members. Should they all be banned? It's not possible to prosper in the corrupt PRC business environment without CCP connections. Jack Ma's recent experience should be a lesson for all.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#184

Post by bewaretheirs »

yencabulator wrote: post #98
mopsi wrote: post #32

This ties well into the "three days to Kyiv" expectation at the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russians really did think that Ukraine had been subverted to a degree that it would just roll over and die; that leadership would run away and local resistance would be limited to disorganized pockets that riot police could suppress, but their informants and agents just stole the money and reported what the Kreml…

History sure does rhyme. They did the same thing in 1940, expecting to hold a parade in Finland with their front line troops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raate_Road

The Party Secretary of Leningrad even commissioned Dmitri Shostakovich to compose celebratory music for the occasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_on_Finnish_Themes

It was set aside but was later rediscovered and was first performed in 2001 by a Finnish orchestra.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#185

Post by noduerme »

rasz wrote: post #123
noduerme wrote: post #2

It's crazy. I know a Russian guy who is exactly like this; I debate with him all the time. Almost every night. About the war. Bluntly invested in winning, regardless of what the system looks like; even admitting that it's a terrible system; using weak arguments for why people need structural dominance, while simultaneously arguing in favor of "the people" - (and using a historical American failings as a way to draw f…

Good documentary about the level of brainwashing in ru Disconnection | A film by Andrey Loshak (Разрыв связи | Фильм Андрея Лошака) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qmQs2LbnaE [english subs]

This was excellent. Thank you. I'm going to try to get my Russian "debate partner" to watch it, although it's probably pointless.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#186

Post by noduerme »

sorokod wrote: post #54
noduerme wrote: post #2

It's crazy. I know a Russian guy who is exactly like this; I debate with him all the time. Almost every night. About the war. Bluntly invested in winning, regardless of what the system looks like; even admitting that it's a terrible system; using weak arguments for why people need structural dominance, while simultaneously arguing in favor of "the people" - (and using a historical American failings as a way to draw f…

Because "almost every night" I assume he is not mobilized. Why would that be so?

Because he lives in America, and drinks at the same bar as me, and we have mostly amicable arguments. He tells me what he sees on Russian telegram. I believe he sincerely believes this propaganda. And I think he doesn't feel comfortable telling most other people here his opinions (although as I often point out, he will not be arrested or punished here for having a dissenting view, as he would be in his home country). I'm not someone who's into "canceling" people, so I listen and respond to his topics. I hear him out and give him my views and we argue. A lot of it comes back to his view that the West is not as good as Russia, even though when we talk about the details (like not getting arrested for free speech) he admits that it's better in some ways, but says that without strong central leadership the West is morally falling apart, (even though he chooses to live here)... I think he partly wants to convince an American, but partly he just wants to understand our point of view.

[edit] based on your other posts down the chain, I think you're implying he's what we'd call a "chickenhawk". I won't confirm or deny that I think the same thing. To me it would be unhelpful to attack his personal lack of bodily commitment when I'm trying to argue historical reality and I'm one of the few Americans in his orbit who probably can. He can, of course, go to anyone else and be told to put his ass on the line if he believes X, Y and Z, so it wouldn't help the conversation.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#187

Post by southernplaces7 »

yencabulator wrote: post #98
mopsi wrote: post #32

This ties well into the "three days to Kyiv" expectation at the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russians really did think that Ukraine had been subverted to a degree that it would just roll over and die; that leadership would run away and local resistance would be limited to disorganized pockets that riot police could suppress, but their informants and agents just stole the money and reported what the Kreml…

History sure does rhyme. They did the same thing in 1940, expecting to hold a parade in Finland with their front line troops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raate_Road

Except that the Finnish Winter War was eventually a defeat for the Finns, due to the overwhelming force of the Red Army despite its horrendous losses. Finland in fact lost more from the war than it would have lost had it simply accepted Stalin's original territorial demands. I still defend their fighting spirit, but it's a bad moral example for the current war, because one hopes the Russians don't eventually win.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#188

Post by southernplaces7 »

teachrdan wrote: post #112
yencabulator wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History sure does rhyme. They did the same thing in 1940, expecting to hold a parade in Finland with their front line troops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raate_Road

The US had many of the same expectations about victory in the second Iraq war.

But the U.S. did win quickly in the second Iraq War. It rapidly crushed the Iraqi armed forces on all fronts and in all combat scenarios and quickly occupied the entire country with minimal military losses. The post-invasion/occupation insurgency was a different story, partly caused by massive U.S. administrative blunders, but the initial invasion/war was nothing like the current Ukraine-Russia conflict, or the 1940 Winter War with Finland.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#189

Post by yencabulator »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #187
yencabulator wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History sure does rhyme. They did the same thing in 1940, expecting to hold a parade in Finland with their front line troops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raate_Road

Except that the Finnish Winter War was eventually a defeat for the Finns, due to the overwhelming force of the Red Army despite its horrendous losses. Finland in fact lost more from the war than it would have lost had it simply accepted Stalin's original territorial demands. I still defend their fighting spirit, but it's a bad moral example for the current war, because one hopes the Russians don't eventually win.

Sure, just the loss of life in that war was severe for a small country.

I am, however, only talking about the Russian assumption of the ease of victory, where reality ended up being very different (7,000-9,000 Russian soldiers dead in a week in that one battle), and the evidence of it in the form of the musical instruments etc for the parade.

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