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SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

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Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#111

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

ajb wrote: post #110
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people are not receiving their promised money on time? Sounds like the title is accurate. Not everyone has the float to handle an unexpected delay in money. People can also suffer liquidity events.

Is it typical for US companies issue pay on the last possible contractual day? I don't think this is usual practice in the UK - for example my contact specifies that I will be paid by the last day of the month, but typically we get the payment several days earlier, sometimes add much as a week.

Pretty much always the 1st and 15th. If either of those fall on a weekend or bank holiday then paid the nearest business day before. That sounds very annoying to not know what day you're getting paid.

Especially +/- a whole week.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#112

Post by toufka »

alasdair_ wrote: post #108
ShakataGaNai wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was a single company, then it might help. But this is likely to affect hundred if not thousands of companies. Millions of potential complaints. That will be a cluster, if everyone does complain. DOL may not like it, but they will likely take into account the fact that these were caused by a bank failure to a scale we've not seen in a decade. At the end of the day the culprit is a bank that's now toast, or the F…

>And if this goes on for any length of time, you could sue your employer... but lack of payroll would only happen if the company no longer has any money - effectively making them bankrupt. Again you could name SVB in the lawsuit, or the FDIC... but good luck getting blood from the stone. You could also sue the CEO directly. Failure to pay employee wages is one of the few things that can (somewhat) easily pierce the c…

Which is why an enormous number of people will be fired, furloughed or reduced to minimum wage on Monday if this isn’t resolved.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#113

Post by [deleted] »

luckylion wrote: post #94
hartator wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How it is not Rippling responsibility which bank they use? We are not even arguing responsibilities anyway. There are delays if you are using Rippling which is the title.

No. Amazon ships you a product with UPS. UPS notifies Amazon that their driver has eaten the package and they're very sorry. Amazon ships out a new package. The new package, provided the driver doesn't eat it, will arrive delayed. But Amazon didn't delay it, nor do they "have to" delay sending packages. "SF payroll firm Rippling finds some payouts delayed" would be accurate. "Has to delay" implies that they "had to"…

[deleted]

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#114

Post by jjulius »

luckylion wrote: post #94
hartator wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How it is not Rippling responsibility which bank they use? We are not even arguing responsibilities anyway. There are delays if you are using Rippling which is the title.

No. Amazon ships you a product with UPS. UPS notifies Amazon that their driver has eaten the package and they're very sorry. Amazon ships out a new package. The new package, provided the driver doesn't eat it, will arrive delayed. But Amazon didn't delay it, nor do they "have to" delay sending packages. "SF payroll firm Rippling finds some payouts delayed" would be accurate. "Has to delay" implies that they "had to"…

> "SF payroll firm Rippling finds some payouts delayed" would be accurate. "Has to delay" implies that they "had to" make a choice to delay payments, e.g. because they don't have the funds available.

The article makes it pretty clear that Rippling felt they "had to" switch banks upon SVB's failure Friday morning. Whether we agree on whether or not they truly had to doesn't change the fact that this was apparently a move they felt they needed to do immediately.

It's like everyone in this thread saying, "They didn't have to," was somehow magically privy to internal Rippling convos.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#115

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #111
ajb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it typical for US companies issue pay on the last possible contractual day? I don't think this is usual practice in the UK - for example my contact specifies that I will be paid by the last day of the month, but typically we get the payment several days earlier, sometimes add much as a week.

Pretty much always the 1st and 15th. If either of those fall on a weekend or bank holiday then paid the nearest business day before. That sounds very annoying to not know what day you're getting paid. Especially +/- a whole week.

I think getting paid every two weeks (eg every other Friday) is more common. This makes it easier for everyone to plan. Also how you get the payroll situation where every few years, people get an additional pay period [0].

[0] https://www.thebalancemoney.com/paying-employees-in-a-year-w...

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#116

Post by colinmorelli »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #52
colinmorelli wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are reacting to your suggestion that employees should report their employers for a circumstance that was entirely, 100% out of the hands of the employer. To be clear, this isn’t about employers using SVB. This is because Rippling, a payroll vendor, uses SVB to transact payroll on behalf of customers. This was entirely out of the control of the employer, most of which are scrambling along with Rippling…

Employees have no choice and no insight into what contractor their employer outsources payroll and taxes to. Unless the employer is liable for trouble that their contractor caused there will be all sorts of perverse incentives - it has happened before that the cheap payroll contractor did not pay taxes although they said they would. The agency of choice and the liability must be with the employer, else all sorts of u…

Employees also have no choice in which courier their employer chooses to send mail, but it would be a bit egregious to report them because a FedEx truck crashed and their letter was delayed for a day or two.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#117

Post by ajb »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #111
ajb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it typical for US companies issue pay on the last possible contractual day? I don't think this is usual practice in the UK - for example my contact specifies that I will be paid by the last day of the month, but typically we get the payment several days earlier, sometimes add much as a week.

Pretty much always the 1st and 15th. If either of those fall on a weekend or bank holiday then paid the nearest business day before. That sounds very annoying to not know what day you're getting paid. Especially +/- a whole week.

Oh they let us know in advance. Anyway, being paid early isn't really a problem. If you're planning when outgoings should happen then you just need to plan on the contractual day, not assume that it will get there earlier. I think most larger companies usually pay on that same day but modulo weekends, so the last Thursday of the month or similar.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#118

Post by luckylion »

jjulius wrote: post #114
luckylion wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Amazon ships you a product with UPS. UPS notifies Amazon that their driver has eaten the package and they're very sorry. Amazon ships out a new package. The new package, provided the driver doesn't eat it, will arrive delayed. But Amazon didn't delay it, nor do they "have to" delay sending packages. "SF payroll firm Rippling finds some payouts delayed" would be accurate. "Has to delay" implies that they "had to"…

> "SF payroll firm Rippling finds some payouts delayed" would be accurate. "Has to delay" implies that they "had to" make a choice to delay payments, e.g. because they don't have the funds available. The article makes it pretty clear that Rippling felt they "had to" switch banks upon SVB's failure Friday morning. Whether we agree on whether or not they truly had to doesn't change the fact that this was apparently a m…

No, you're misunderstanding the point. If the headline would be "Rippling had to switch banks after...", it would be accurate and not clickbait.

The headline is "Rippling has to delay payouts after..." though, which is completely different. They haven't delayed payouts. Some payouts are delayed, because they were in flight when the plane crashed. That's not "delaying payouts", that's "payouts are delayed". They'd would be "delaying payouts" if they said "we're only resuming payouts starting on Friday", but that's not what's happening.

It's like Amazon shipping a product. The product gets eaten by the courier. Amazon sends out a new product. Your shipment is delayed, but Amazon isn't delaying it. The eating delayed it, not Amazon.

Just because they "had to" do one thing doesn't mean a headline can claim they "had to" do other things. Like, a similar headline would be "Rippling had to defraud the government after...". Totally inaccurate, they didn't do that. It's not about the "had to", it's about the "did they actually delay payments", which is an active process and requires intent. They didn't, and that makes the headline inaccurate.

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#119

Post by jjulius »

luckylion wrote: post #118
jjulius wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "SF payroll firm Rippling finds some payouts delayed" would be accurate. "Has to delay" implies that they "had to" make a choice to delay payments, e.g. because they don't have the funds available. The article makes it pretty clear that Rippling felt they "had to" switch banks upon SVB's failure Friday morning. Whether we agree on whether or not they truly had to doesn't change the fact that this was apparently a m…

No, you're misunderstanding the point. If the headline would be "Rippling had to switch banks after...", it would be accurate and not clickbait. The headline is "Rippling has to delay payouts after..." though, which is completely different. They haven't delayed payouts. Some payouts are delayed, because they were in flight when the plane crashed. That's not "delaying payouts", that's "payouts are delayed". They'd wou…

>... it's about the "did they actually delay payments", which is an active process and requires intent.

You mean like making the big decision to switch banks during a crisis like this knowing that payments would likely be delayed as a part of the process? Huh, would ya look at that.

If you're aware of the fallout that will occur when you make a decision, and you still make that decision, it's your fault. They knew what would, or could, happen and they said, "Do it".

If we really want to compare this to Amazon, the correct analogy would be, "This item ships to you every two weeks. It would normally arrive today, but Amazon chose to switch carriers at the last minute which requires package re-routing, so it will arrive in two days". There wouldn't have been a delay if Amazon (or Rippling) hadn't switched carriers (or banks).

Re: SF payroll firm Rippling has to delay payouts after Silicon Valley Bank collapse

#120

Post by jjulius »

luckylion wrote: post #104
jen20 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I order a package from Amazon, and it doesn’t show up on time and in the condition, I blame Amazon, not their subcontractor with whom I have no relationship. A longer supply chain does not mean the divestiture of responsibility. Note I am NOT suggesting that every package must arrive on time, just that when they do not, it is Amazon who must perform the service recovery rather than a delivery company. That is no d…

> I blame Amazon, not their subcontractor with whom I have no relationship Totally. But you wouldn't say that "Amazon chose to delay my package", you'd say "my package got delayed, UPS should really make sure not to use that package-eating driver or Amazon should stop using UPS". "Amazon delayed my package" = "Amazon intentionally delayed my package so that it doesn't arrive on time". "My Amazon package got delayed"…

>But you wouldn't say that "Amazon chose to delay my package", you'd say "my package got delayed, UPS should really make sure not to use that package-eating driver or Amazon should stop using UPS".

No, in if Amazon is standing in for Rippling here, you would say that Amazon normally ships with UPS but made a last-minute decision to switch carriers. This requires some last minute logistical adjustments resulting in your delayed package.

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