Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know where OP got that from, but we don't actually need to use it, an a lot of things live there. It isn't all just bare sun bleached rock and sand. https://www.desertmuseum.org/desert/sonora.php
"things live there" can also be true about gamma-ray sterilized canned food[0]. That doesn't mean it's important to the continued functioning of the ecosphere. Also, some deserts are more lifeless than others. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans
Growing crops under solar panels
131–140 of 154 posts
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#132There are interesting things in the article, but I think it was never about available land use, but just another knee jerk argument against solar panels. Example: Disneyland Europe will generate over 30 GWh per year from just covering a part of its parking lot. And if France makes it mandatory to cover all "substantial" parking lots it will generate as much electricity from just that as 10 nuclear power plants [1]. A…
Ultimately it means more jobs, more civilization resiliency in disasters, and a "democraticization" of energy generation, which I think the elite REALLY don't want.
It's a thing that economic development basically follows energy production. Central control of economic development (which is what we have with cartel megacorps) wants centralized control of energy production.
Solar isn't just a good carbon policy, or a path to cheaper better energy, or better insurance/life in unstable grids. Home solar is an improvement to individual or small-group liberty.
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would we destroy pristine desert, which is rapidly disappearing, when we could cover land that has already been disturbed, like parking lots, building roofs, and farmland? Deserts are important ecosystems regardless of their immediate utility to industrial society
There will always be trade off no matter where we decide to put them. Either that or we return to living in villages and forget about modern civilization.
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#134There are interesting things in the article, but I think it was never about available land use, but just another knee jerk argument against solar panels. Example: Disneyland Europe will generate over 30 GWh per year from just covering a part of its parking lot. And if France makes it mandatory to cover all "substantial" parking lots it will generate as much electricity from just that as 10 nuclear power plants [1]. A…
> And if France makes it mandatory to cover all "substantial" parking lots it will generate as much electricity from just that as 10 nuclear power plants [1]. It will not, not even close to that. You are being deceived. This deception is willful, because it is obvious to anyone who has any idea about realities of energy generation. The linked article, however, while not literally lying, omits some obvious facts, the…
Hyperbole much? The polar night is a lot further north.
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
This[0] is a berry farm I was just at. As you can see it’s already covered to protect from extra sun. No tractor could fit anyways. This[1] is one version of agrovoltaics. The solar panels act like window blinds. They can be configured to follow the sun but also can be configured to “provide optimal shade/cooling throughout the day”. [0] https://images.app.goo.gl/mSbtJjtSQRukBQqK6 [1] https://images.app.goo.gl/9kakPW…
"This[0] is a berry farm I was just at. As you can see it’s already covered to protect from extra sun." Erm, I can see a greenhouse. I think they are made to increase temperature for the plants and not to protect from extra sun. Strawberries like sun and would not benefit from shade, unless we are talking about very intense sunlight and not much water. Most plants usually want as much sun as they can get, so long as…
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
>improved fleece on merino sheep grazed under panels Makes sense. I'm not sure the exact care instructions, but I'm pretty sure "store this garment outside unshielded in the baking sun and pouring rain for many months" isn't the official recommendation for wool. If available, sheep (and other animals) will seek cover during heavy rains and periods of high heat stress. This protects both the sheep and the wool, and bo…
Wool has a protective layer of grease, the same thing that makes your hair feels "greasy" if you don't wash your hair for a month. This grease is washed away during wool processing and sold as lanolin. And also, the degradation that you see on sun-damaged clothing is mostly on the dye, not the underlying fabric itself.
UV light will absolutely wreck most things, including fabric. Fabric left outdoors unprotected for a summer in Southwest US will be brittle and tear apart when handled. Plastic that isn't UV-protected will crack in about two summers. Hoses left in the sun will develop multiple leaks in 3-5 years, pretty much no matter how robust the marketing claimed they are.
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it hard to believe it was against the law to use batteries to store excess solar power.
I'm guessing the comment was about regulating against sufficient large battery installations in a dense urban setting until standards where in place. Australia has a high (very high by world standards) % of houses with solar panels on the roof which feed power back to the main grid (in cities and surrounding towns) which minimises the need for battery walls (which will no doubt come soon enough). In (sub)urban housin…
From what I understand, planning regulations (Australia's "zoning laws") don't always specifically prohibit those things. Rather, it is illegal to have something dangerous on a property, especially a residential one – but rather than list every possible thing that could be dangerous, it is more that local government has the power to decide on a case-by-case basis, and you can challenge their decision in the courts if you disagree with it. Some of those things – such as explosives (fireworks) – are also primarily regulated by state agencies, rather than local governments (who have the primary responsibility for zoning). Unlike the US (for instance), we don't have local fire departments, the fire department (or "fire brigade" or "fire service" or "fire authority", which are more common terms in Australian English) is generally a state government agency, and it shares responsibility with local governments for fire safety. Zoning intersects with some aspects of fire safety – building setbacks are often partially motivated by fire safety concerns, but also by other concerns such as visual amenity – other aspects of fire safety regulation are really orthogonal to zoning.
> I dare say large battery walls were also zoned against until plans were in place re: standards, etc.
I don't think there was ever a rule per se against battery systems in residential areas (and especially not a "zoning" rule). There are a set of known risks that they pose – fire, arc flash, electric shock, chemical burns, etc – and you need to prove you are adequately managing those risks. Before commercial off-the-shelf systems were widely available, you'd have some bespoke system requiring review on a case-by-case basis – obviously that's a lot more time-consuming, expensive and uncertain in outcome. With a commercial off-the-shelf system, the manufacturer will get it approved as a type, and then it just becomes the much easier question if this particular install is following the rules for that type approval.
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And if France makes it mandatory to cover all "substantial" parking lots it will generate as much electricity from just that as 10 nuclear power plants [1]. It will not, not even close to that. You are being deceived. This deception is willful, because it is obvious to anyone who has any idea about realities of energy generation. The linked article, however, while not literally lying, omits some obvious facts, the…
> the sun doesn't shine at all for at least half of the year Hyperbole much? The polar night is a lot further north.
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm guessing the comment was about regulating against sufficient large battery installations in a dense urban setting until standards where in place. Australia has a high (very high by world standards) % of houses with solar panels on the roof which feed power back to the main grid (in cities and surrounding towns) which minimises the need for battery walls (which will no doubt come soon enough). In (sub)urban housin…
> In (sub)urban housing in Australia it's against zoning for residential houses to have large tire piles (ie an entire yard of old car tyres with more house high stacks out the back) due to the dangers of dirty fires, ditto having a shipping container of fireworks next your house (and other houses in area), massive fuel tanks, etc. From what I understand, planning regulations (Australia's "zoning laws") don't always…
I've had a house or two in Perth over the years but I mainly live and work in rural or undeveloped outback locations and rarely face any pushback over experimental builds and installations.
Re: Growing crops under solar panels
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a very USA-centric comment. To the best of my knowledge, the two countries doing most research on agrivoltaics are Japan and China.
The countries that develop, build, and sell solar panels? Not surprising.
I would argue countries like USA, Canada, Brazil, Australia are the outliers. Most of the world cannot afford to be as dismissive of land use optimisation as some US Midwestern farmers appear to be.