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129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

smithsonianmag.com

11–20 of 33 posts

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#11

It would be awesome to go back in time and see some of these remote port cities in their heyday (such as Marquette, Duluth).

This is what I feel is a killer usecase for the "metaverse" or VR in general - especially as an educational tool.

People who've tried certain VR experiences know it's SUPER immersive (seriously, I had a physical adrenaline spike when I was on the edge of a platform hundreds of meters up in Vader immortal) - having that kind of experience in an educational setting is going to cause those experiences to embed, and with them, the subject being learned, far better than any book for some people.

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#12
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NOAA page on the wreck ( https://thunderbay.noaa.gov/shipwrecks/ironton.html ) just has depth listed as "TBA", but the Ohio that it collided with is in >100m. assuming it's in similar range, that's serious depth. Way into hypoxic trimix zone (ie: you'll be breathing gas that'd kill you if you were breathing it on the surface) Looks fascinating, but almost certainly out of reach for all but the most extreme techni…

Crazy how 100m is such a short distance in most walks of life except for underwater. It’s seriously non intuitive to a layman the whole pressure thing.

The big thing to understand is that you gain a whole atmosphere of pressure every 10 meters underwater you go. So at 100 meters you are experiencing 11 atmospheres of pressure (over 150 PSI). It's a wonder humans can go there at all without a vessel!

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#13
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NOAA page on the wreck ( https://thunderbay.noaa.gov/shipwrecks/ironton.html ) just has depth listed as "TBA", but the Ohio that it collided with is in >100m. assuming it's in similar range, that's serious depth. Way into hypoxic trimix zone (ie: you'll be breathing gas that'd kill you if you were breathing it on the surface) Looks fascinating, but almost certainly out of reach for all but the most extreme techni…

I’m not a diver; but the physiology of these depth effects is fascinating! TIL that these hypoxic mixes are needed because of a combination of two effects: nitrogen narcosis[0] and oxygen toxicity[1]. The former is due to diffusion of any gas, apart from helium, into neurons in the CNS under high pressure, while the latter is due to the raised partial pressure of O2 at depth. 100% O2 is cumulatively toxic at sea leve…

In diving we think in terms of partial pressures. At sea-level, 21% of air is oxygen, and .21 is also your partial pressure of O2. In order to breath at depth, though, we need to be supplied with a higher and higher pressure of gas to fight the pressure of the surrounding environment opposing our lung expansion. At 10 meters, the pressure doubles sea-level, and you are breathing gas at twice atmospheric pressure (meaning there are twice as many O2 and Nitrogen molecules in every liter of gas).

Consequently, the partial pressure of oxygen you are breathing is doubled, to .42. This continues, until you reach a partial pressure which is incompatible with life. That danger-zone is generally considered to be between 1.4 and 1.6, so air cannot be safely breathed below about 60 meters (1.6/.21 - 1 = about 6 atmospheres). Similarly, pure O2 cannot be breathed safely below about 6 meters (1.6/1 - 1 = about .6 atmospheres).

Your description of nitrogen narcosis is correct. To dive deeper than your nitrogen narcosis limits you start replacing some of the nitrogen with helium in the gas you breathe. This works up to the limits of even the most technical recreational diving, after which you will get symptoms of something called HPNS which could mean replacing the helium itself with hydrogen.

Both helium and nitrogen will get stored in your inert tissues and will bubble out catastrophically if you ascend too quickly. With either inert gas you must carefully plan your ascent to avoid the bends.

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#14

It would be awesome to go back in time and see some of these remote port cities in their heyday (such as Marquette, Duluth).

While down from its peaks, Duluth is still a very active harbor. [1]

There are regular harbor cams and freighter watching videos on Youtube. [2][3]

There is an old lake freighter open to tour. [4]

There are several good breweries (probably better quality than what would have been available peak Duluth!).

The University of Minnesota does have historical aerial survey photos of the port starting in the 1930s, but modern Google Maps satellite is probably better to get a sense of the port. [5]

If you travel up the north shore, Two Harbors is also still an active port. There's a good brewery there. And still further up the coast, there's also an old lighthouse that can be toured. [6]

Not a local, just a fan. But as a fan of history, I agree it would be so interesting to time travel.

[1] http://duluthport.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2021-Tonnag...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/@DuluthHarborCam1

[3] https://www.youtube.com/@PaulScinocca

[4] https://decc.org/william-a-irvin/

[5] https://apps.lib.umn.edu/mhapo/

[6] https://www.mnhs.org/splitrock

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#15
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NOAA page on the wreck ( https://thunderbay.noaa.gov/shipwrecks/ironton.html ) just has depth listed as "TBA", but the Ohio that it collided with is in >100m. assuming it's in similar range, that's serious depth. Way into hypoxic trimix zone (ie: you'll be breathing gas that'd kill you if you were breathing it on the surface) Looks fascinating, but almost certainly out of reach for all but the most extreme techni…

Crazy how 100m is such a short distance in most walks of life except for underwater. It’s seriously non intuitive to a layman the whole pressure thing.

To be fair it is 100m vertical. Stand on a 25 story building and look down. That's not a small distance.

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#17
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a diver; but the physiology of these depth effects is fascinating! TIL that these hypoxic mixes are needed because of a combination of two effects: nitrogen narcosis[0] and oxygen toxicity[1]. The former is due to diffusion of any gas, apart from helium, into neurons in the CNS under high pressure, while the latter is due to the raised partial pressure of O2 at depth. 100% O2 is cumulatively toxic at sea leve…

In diving we think in terms of partial pressures. At sea-level, 21% of air is oxygen, and .21 is also your partial pressure of O2. In order to breath at depth, though, we need to be supplied with a higher and higher pressure of gas to fight the pressure of the surrounding environment opposing our lung expansion. At 10 meters, the pressure doubles sea-level, and you are breathing gas at twice atmospheric pressure (mea…

> Both helium and nitrogen will get stored in your inert tissues and will bubble out catastrophically if you ascend too quickly.

I'm not going to link to the Byford Dolphin incident, because it would need a [TW] and I hate that shit, so you can just google it yourself. The 30-second rundown is that on the surface divers live in a very strong steel tank pressurised to the same degree as they would be on the seabed, so maybe make sure you close the door properly.

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#18

If you're from the Great Lakes, you know The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald . If not, maybe not. But it's what you want to listen to while reading this article.

I only know of the Edmund Fitgerald from the great Gordon Lightfoot song

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#19

If you're from the Great Lakes, you know The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald . If not, maybe not. But it's what you want to listen to while reading this article.

I only know of the Edmund Fitgerald from the great Gordon Lightfoot song

Pretty sure that's all anyone knows about it

Re: 129-year-old vessel still tethered to lifeboat found on floor of Lake Huron

#20
post #15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy how 100m is such a short distance in most walks of life except for underwater. It’s seriously non intuitive to a layman the whole pressure thing.

To be fair it is 100m vertical. Stand on a 25 story building and look down. That's not a small distance.

It's not really about the distance; it's about how drastically conditions change in 100m depth of water -- to the point that very specialized equipment is necessary for humans to survive, and if we're not careful on the way up it's gonna be a Very Bad Time possibly (or even likely) resulting in death.
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