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KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

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Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#171

Post by _siis »

anigbrowl wrote: post #13
rexreed wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The over-confidence in clearly irrational positions, the bluster and bluffing and bullying are all coping mechanisms for what their brains detect as cognitive dissonance. "How can my life be so bad, dreary, miserable, and inadequate?" "It must not be my situation, but it must be everyone else, so I will fight everyone else, as I can't change my situation." Rather than improve their own lot, they seek to destroy other…

One should ask, though, what makes improvement impossible.

Well just from my own personal research (which is not nearly as thorough as I'd like), structurally any central power structure receives little benefit from division of labor and the main driver that allows it to work and greese the wheels are corruption, which generally promotes oligopoly or monopoly.

Then you have the economic calculation problem, inability to adjust to shortages because the economy is not self-moderating, low to zero visibility (and shame) so responsible parties may not communicate to enact change rapidly or admit there's a problem until its had significant cost.

Generally speaking, there is also a lot of indoctrination, and many who grow up in those places see the only solution to failures of socialism as more socialism because it failed because there simply wasn't enough, and it is after all about the group over the whole with identity politics.

Improvement is impossible because failures can't be acknowledged or reconciled rationally.

Structurally over time its a fundamentally unstable system as people age out of positions of power, newer generations may not be properly educated (they all drink the same coolaid).

Rational pragmatic and constructive thought is kind of a requirement to improve.

There's also usually a good portion of the population used as disadvantaged labor that supports an aristocratic elite.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#172

Post by somenameforme »

lostlogin wrote: post #161
narrator wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia isn't trying to advance. They withdrew in Kherson in an orderly fashion because they believed the supply lines were too vulnerable. The Ruble did not crash vs. the U.S dollar. In fact it strengthened for a while and it's back to its long-term average[1]. Anecdotal reports from inside Russia from average Russians that I read on other forums seem to show that there is not a lot of economic stress. [1] https://ww…

Yes, but that wasn’t a victory, its was a loss. The earlier retreats were complete collapses. What would you describe the carry on in the Bakhmut region as? That’s chewing up Russian resources at a far higher rate than the western ones, and for a ruined town of little strategic significance.

This [1] is a map of the war. To locate Bakhmut, find the most critical section of the war and go to the center of it. You will be at or near Bakhmut. Alternatively, locate highway 32 ("H-32") and follow it straight to the frontline. The battle for that city has been going on for about 8 months now; the rhetoric about it being strategically irrelevant only began once the tide began shifting.

But I think the real meaning of Bakhmut is not about its strategic value. What really wins battles, and wars alike, is morale. This is why things like propaganda and disinformation plays such a significant role. You try to keep your own side's morale high, while doing everything to break that of the enemy. If we imagine war only in terms of strategy then it's very possible that something like defense in depth [2] would be optimal for Ukraine. It's a massive country with lots of well fortified locations. Let the Russian forces overextend and suffer severe casualties advancing on ever fresh fortifications.

But the problem is morale. Each time you fall back you suffer a morale loss, and each time the enemy achieves victory they receive a morale boost. And in Bakhmut this has become critical. Both sides have suffered immense losses there, and so the ultimate conclusion of that battle is going to have a tremendous impact on morale. I think this is the main reason there's so much dispute on the proper strategy. You have to measure an immeasurable (morale/morale impact) in order to determine the proper action, all the while balancing this against the reality on the ground.

[1] - https://ukraine.liveuamap.com/uk

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_in_depth

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#173

Post by watwut »

sorokod wrote: post #113
watwut wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He might simply live in region that mobilized less. Of live abroad. Most of mobilization happen in poor peripheral regions. Moscow and surrounding mobilizes much less.

For sure, but a person with principles should act on them, otherwise they are just words.

But none of his principles implies he should go fight to war. He wants Russia win, but wanting particular outcome does not imply joining army. There is nothing special about that either. I wanted ISIS to loose, I never joined any legions. I want Ukraine to win, but I am not going there to fight either.

If he claimed that not going is wrong, then he would be hypocrite. But it sounds more of "I want Russia to win and I accept human sacrifices along the way. That sux for them, but it is what it is" sort of attitude. Not exactly admirable, but also does not imply he should be volunteering.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#174

Post by thr717272 »

phonescreen_man wrote: post #65
thr717272 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The US" doesn't accuse anyone. We who know anything about Russia might however. And, I think if you look around a little you'll find access to outside information and options to distribute it way harder in Russia. Also, the lies they serve are hilarious: just today I saw a video with one of the chief propagandists claiming on TV that people in the UK hunt squirrels for food :-)

From the UK, there are definitely people in the UK who hunt squirrels for food. My people!

I also have such a friend but only because it was near the end of hell week (or what you guys call it, my memory is a bit hazy what exact words he used 25 years ago), not because Russian sanctions made any starve :-)

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#176

Post by sorokod »

watwut wrote: post #173
sorokod wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, but a person with principles should act on them, otherwise they are just words.

But none of his principles implies he should go fight to war. He wants Russia win, but wanting particular outcome does not imply joining army. There is nothing special about that either. I wanted ISIS to loose, I never joined any legions. I want Ukraine to win, but I am not going there to fight either. If he claimed that not going is wrong, then he would be hypocrite. But it sounds more of "I want Russia to win and I…

I think that there is some grey area around what a hypocrite is but not that much.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#177

Post by nascx »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #97
nlrtpx wrote: post #87

It is strange how this interview is currently used. Clearly Bezmenov alleges that the subversion tactics were promoting original left-wing causes since the 1960s: He cites Hippie culture, pilgrimages to India, cultural marxism, etc. Basically everything that Reagan did not like. Now the ruling party are Democrats, and apparently the same interview is used to prove current Russian disinformation, i.e. (alleged) right…

"cultural marxism" is a far right antisemitic conspiracy theory that you're referencing (and as a brand new account with one comment)

[flagged]

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#178

Post by sorokod »

Redoubts wrote: post #144
watwut wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He might simply live in region that mobilized less. Of live abroad. Most of mobilization happen in poor peripheral regions. Moscow and surrounding mobilizes much less.

Good news is Wagner just opened up recruiting centers in Russian 42 cities.

Interestingly, announcement is on the VK (Russian analog of Facebook) page of Concord - a media company owned by Prigozhin. This how "siloviki" (power players) communicate with the masses.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#179

Post by lr1970 »

yostrovs wrote: post #133
somenameforme wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Ukraine... I've been unable to find any meaningful and direct quote from Russian military/political leaders stating they expected to immediately capture the city, but you can find plentiful US sources predicting exactly that: --- "The sources said that the initial US assessment from before the invasion – which anticipated that the Ukrainian capital would be overrun within one to four days of a Russian attack – re…

Putin didn't say it, but then he said he's not planning any invasion anyways. Here you can see various Russian tv personalities, we well as Lukasgenko, saying just that: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SuR7axsnUjw And here is Sharij, a pro Russian journalist from Ukraine that's extremely popular, mocking all the reports of destruction of Russian forces on the first day and believing all the Russian lies, such as having…

> You must also understand that in Russian culture it was common to mock Ukrainians as dumb farmer hicks, while thinking of themselves as highly technologically advanced.

Where did you get this info from? My experience growing up in USSR (in areas that are now Russia and Ukraine) was totally different. Ukraine had a reputation (well deserved) as a major tech hub. Most of Soviet space industry (military for one) was there -- rockets, missiles, rocket engines, electronics. Kyiv University was one of the major places of learning rivaling MGU (Moscow State University). People from all over the Soviet Union were fighting nail and tooth to be allowed to move and live in Kyiv. Yes, there were folk-jokes (anekdoty) about Ukrainians like about anybody else. This does not reflect in any form upon the fact that Ukraine was very highly developed republic within USSR. 3 out of 7 leader of USSR were Ukrainians (Khrushchev - 8 years, Brezhnev - 18 years in power, Chernenko - 2 years). Ukraine has always been a force to recon with.

EDIT: typos.

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