Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

citoyens.soquij.qc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 318 posts

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#201

Post by bawolff »

Waterluvian wrote: post #143
908B64B197 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find my American friends sometimes freak out over the “but they could take your freedoms away!” when they read about stuff like that But did they? > It’s also written somewhere that I’m subject to a king, so I’m not really free anyways. Also I don’t actually own any land. It all belongs to my king. That’s written down too. Is it something that people are proud of? A big part of the culture?

Nobody here really cares about the monarchy beyond the novelty. But we don’t feel threatened by the fact that technically the monarchy has sweeping powers to dissolve government and walk away with our freedoms. Heck we aren’t even accumulating weapons just in case!

> But we don’t feel threatened by the fact that technically the monarchy has sweeping powers to dissolve government and walk away with our freedoms.

FWIW, technically they do not have that power. In a constitutional monarchy the monarch is subject to the constitution. The king can't technically abolish canadian parliment anymore than the us president would be able to technically abolish congress.

Of course there is a certain truth to the idea that its all a social construct, and anyone can abolish the government if they are backed by a large enough number of people with guns.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#202

Post by Natsu »

cldellow wrote: post #19
colpabar wrote: post #5

I know saying "fuck the police" is an overused cliche at this point but how the fuck can anyone have any respect for the police as a whole when this is the shit they do? In canada they arrest you for a hand gesture and in america they arrest you for letting your children walk outside. How could any sane member of society go to a person's house and arrest them for these things? And they still have the nerve to complai…

TBH, I think the conduct of the cops is fine here. If someone alleges that the other party is making death threats, I want them to investigate. It's not alleged that the cops mistreated Mr. Epstein. Obviously being arrested is traumatic, but the fault here lies with the unhinged neighbour, who will hopefully be prosecuted. What's beyond the pale for me is that the Crown prosecutor brought the lawsuit at all. She's ev…

That's actually addressed in the article if you read deep enough. The judge praises the prosecutor for cutting the case off halfway and asking it thrown out after they heard from the defendant.

They did have a video of a guy giving both middle fingers and making a motion that could ambiguously look like throat slashing. Now it wasn't that and the guy had a credible explanation of why and his neighbor is both a bad driver and a paranoid nutjob, most of which was proven by the paranoid guy's own videos wherein he (but not his innocent neighbor) can be seen doing all manner of things that might credibly be offenses like driving over the limit, driving dangerously and not slowing around kids, etc.

So it's not too clear to me what the prosecutor knew and when, beyond that video, but at least when the evidence did come out, they folded immediately, which makes me believe they must not have known that earlier.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#204

Post by bawolff »

FpUser wrote: post #187
version_five wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada's charter of rights and freedoms isn't worth the paper it's printed on, especially in Quebec where the government actively pre-empts it (it has a clause that allows this, explaining why it's worthless) when it doesn't line up with their ideology.

Got nothing to do with Quebec in particular. Every Canadian province and feds can invoke Not Withstanding Clause which is basically fuck you and your rights.

I think the point is that quebec has a longer history of invoking the notwithstanding clause, where in other provinces it is slightly more taboo. And even when invoked in other provinces, it often ends up not really being used (either turns out not to be needed, law not brought into force, or law declared unconstitutional despite notwithstanding clause).

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#205

Post by bawolff »

jpambrun wrote: post #149
version_five wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada's charter of rights and freedoms isn't worth the paper it's printed on, especially in Quebec where the government actively pre-empts it (it has a clause that allows this, explaining why it's worthless) when it doesn't line up with their ideology.

This charter and the constitution was imposed unilaterally, and adopted at night without the presence of Quebec representatives. So.. can't really blame us for not being in love with it..

It was adopted without quebec, but its not like it was done in secret. Quebec was present for the negotiations.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#206

Post by p-e-w »

> [6] This injustice ends today.

No it doesn't. Unless such actions have consequences for the police and prosecutors beyond their case being thrown out, this injustice persists. To claim otherwise is like saying the injustice of a robbery has been rectified because the robber was not allowed to keep the stolen goods. That's not what "justice" means.

What the judge is really telling police and prosecutors is: You failed this time, but by all means keep trying.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#207

Post by bawolff »

908B64B197 wrote: post #104
b112 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, other political bodies do this as well, and it is becoming more common. That clause, I agree, was a mistake. Still, the charter has at least been beneficial in many court cases, and caused many laws to be turfed (many of which, are just dropped forever).

>> especially in Quebec where the government actively pre-empts it It would make sense for Quebec to ignore it since, well, they didn't sign it. Just like the US constitution doesn't apply since, well, Canada didn't sign it. > Sadly, other political bodies do this as well, and it is becoming more common. What makes no sense is the federal government can apparently decide to "suspend the constitution" as it pleases (a…

> It would make sense for Quebec to ignore it since, well, they didn't sign it. Just like the US constitution doesn't apply since, well, Canada didn't sign it.

I mean, if we're going to make this analogy, the thing that was signed was Treaty of Paris of 1763.

The usa only requires 3/4 of state legislators to agree before it becomes binding on all of them. In canada, the rule depends on the thing, but generally its 7 provinces containing >50% of population. Quebec was the only province not to agree to the charter.

If we're making a comparison to the usa, it works basically the same way.

> What makes no sense is the federal government can apparently decide to "suspend the constitution" as it pleases (and did so for peaceful freedom of speech demonstrations by truckers recently).

This is incorrect. The emergencies act did not suspend the constitution.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#208

Post by jakeogh »

klyrs wrote: post #179
hackernewds wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Offending someone is not a crime except when in Canada, you do not acquiesce to calling someone by their chosen gender pronoun https://www.them.us/story/canadian-court-rules-misgendering-...

That's a human rights tribunal, which is basically a lawsuit in a fancy hat. Not a crime.

Incrementalism. Its exceptionally effective. Before we know it, a comedian will train his dog to show us.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#209

Post by refurb »

defrost wrote: post #195
refurb wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Just to be clear, a financial contribution either through a crowdsourced platform or directly, could result in their bank account being frozen?” Conservative MP Philip Lawrence asked Department of Finance Assistant Deputy Minister Isabelle Jacques. “Yes,” she replied. https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/even-small-donation-t...

Followed by: Such action, she said, would only be taken on donations made after Feb. 15’s emergency declaration and isn’t retroactive — adding such a case would be “very unlikely,” but definitely possible. The main solid takeaway from that article is that 206 accounts were definitely frozen .. accounts that very probably donations were flowing into. The rest of the article is weasel phrased, there are allegations of…

Who cares if it was "only after the emergency declaration"? Who cares if it wasn't "retroactive"? Who care if the government is sending updates on who they freeze?

Those sound like a lot of attempts to say "oh, seizing people's assets without trial for the crime of a small donation only happened to a few people, so no big deal".

Some blue collar guy trying to make ends meets hears about the protest after the emergency and says "yeah, I think the government is overstepping, I'm going to send $10 in support". Never stepped foot in Ottawa, never blocked any bridges, never honked any horns. Now his bank account is frozen and he can't pay the rent.

How in any way is that acceptable in a country that claims to respect person freedoms? These are the tactics you'd expect from authoritarian systems. I used to laugh at the irony when Vietnam would charge some protestor for "abusing democratic freedoms", but hey, that's kinda what Canada did.

People should be really pissed off that it happens at all. But you know what, I'm ok if people aren't that pissed off. What's more maddening are people who saying "yeah, that should have happened. In fact, I'm glad it happened".

Jesus Christ Canada. I don't know what it is with Commonwealth countries but you see places like New Zealand and Australia doing the same. "The right of the state supersede the rights of the individual".

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#210

Post by blendergeek »

unixgoddess wrote: post #78
blendergeek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not like when I was a kid where we would get ball games going and pause to let the cars pass. People expected kids to be playing in the street so didn’t drive like complete lunatics. In my neighborhood kids play in the street all the time. There are basketball goals up and down my street and the kids pause the ball games to let the cars pass. Are you sure that you don't just live in a different place now?

doesn't the noise from basketballs hitting concrete/asphalt drive you guys nuts?

Nope! The only noise in my neighborhood that sometimes annoys me is loud music, but I like people to be able to enjoy themselves.
Post reply on HN