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Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

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Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#151

Post by hippich »

codezero wrote: post #132
hippich wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, what motivated you? Were you afraid of law enforcement ever catching up? Was is just pure scene cred it even that did not matter much?

Initial motivation was being a teenager without enough money to buy all the new computer games coming out. From there, it was partly just excitement using new technology that was relevant to the scene (Linux, high speed networks, cool ANSI art). In general scene cred was a big motivator. I also ran a BBS, and being well known in the scene also meant that artists made you great art for your board for free, which was a…

Thanks for sharing!

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#152

Post by contingencies »

kingforaday wrote: post #136
jsz0 wrote: post #96

When I first got in the Internet back in the 90s I thought warez was pronounced like Juarez the town in Mexico. To this very day when I see the word that's what it sounds like in my mind.

This to me feels like the folks that call their router a rooter.

This is normal pronunciation outside of the US.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#153

Post by lll-o-lll »

cortesoft wrote: post #52
sedatk wrote: post #26

I'm pretty sure that I'd have stopped with just probation, yes. Having the feds raid your house, confiscate all your gear, and put you through the hell of their investigations for a year was enough of a wake up call for me. The gap between a sufficient punishment and what he actually got is the harshest reality in all this. It's very similar to what people have gone through for small marijuana related offenses.

This is why I never understand people who get mad at ‘lenient’ sentences for crimes. There are no crimes I would commit where, say, 1 year in prison wouldn’t be a deterrent but 5 years would be. If the point of prison is to deter crime, then adding longer sentences isn’t going to change anything.

Deterrence is an aspect. So is justice. Justice means punishment for the wrong-doer. It needs an independent arbitrator as whenever someone is punished, they feel it too harsh and whenever someone is wronged, they feel the punishment too lenient.

Not suggesting the punishment in this case was fair or just. I’m an ex-hacker who got very lucky to not end up with criminal charges when I was 18. I have great empathy for what Shane has gone through.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#154

Post by matthew-wegner »

TheSkyHasEyes wrote: post #135
hippich wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, what motivated you? Were you afraid of law enforcement ever catching up? Was is just pure scene cred it even that did not matter much?

Not who you asked. The reason was the juice. The excitement of sending stuff around the world before everyone else. I never cracked on x86 just a little bit with 6809. I was a courier in late 90s(anyone recall FlashFXP). Fall of 1999 is when isonews.com(some old schoolers here will remember this website) got their homepage owned by the FBI. I left the scene that day.

1999 was still pretty early! iSONEWS launched in December '98, but really it was the spring of '99 when things really gained momentum. The domain seizure was 2003.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#155

Post by samstave »

codezero wrote: post #62

I was a member of Razor back in the day. I noticed that he mentioned he wouldn't say how he got Quake released before release date. I can share how I participated in an early release: I had befriended the manager of Electronics Boutique because I bought frequently there for many years prior to getting into pirating games. He would give me games that arrived but weren't on the shelf yet. From there, it was uploaded to…

UHM....

Was one of two heads of DRG gaming labs at intel in the 90s...

Yeah Razor was massive back in that day and we ran a massive warez bbs out of that lab....

we got pre-deploy releases and....

the other guy went on to be evp of dev for blizzard...

FYI: I never knew who the 1911 guy was...

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#156

Post by MrVandemar »

antisthenes wrote: post #102
marcodiego wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...adults got sent to jail and had their lives ruined." I'm sure it is a polemic terrain, but I really wonder if this is fair. Eager to hear opinions.

I think in general it is fair, but the very arbitrary 18/not-18 cutoff doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I consider (myself) and most people I know to have been children at 18 and up to several years older than that. But it's not like people wear their "maturity" levels on their forehead, so the justice system has to make an arbitrary cutoff somewhere. Not saying it's ideal, and individual circumstances have to be c…

> I think in general it is fair, but the very arbitrary 18/not-18 cutoff doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I saw some neuroscience research once that indicated you don't really mature until your early 20s.

That said, in some cultures you are considered an adult at about 14 (mostly hunter gatherer cultures that lack the insane complexity and fundamental weirdness that we have right now).

18 seems a good rough split-the-difference, but equally, in an ideal world it'd be 21. That said, most people wouldn't want to wait that long to do responsible adult activities like drive cars too fast around the place, vote for the people who do the best job of lying, and consume borderline-lethal quantities of alcohol ... :-)

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#157

Post by Method5440 »

hippich wrote: post #130
codezero wrote: post #62

I was a member of Razor back in the day. I noticed that he mentioned he wouldn't say how he got Quake released before release date. I can share how I participated in an early release: I had befriended the manager of Electronics Boutique because I bought frequently there for many years prior to getting into pirating games. He would give me games that arrived but weren't on the shelf yet. From there, it was uploaded to…

If you don't mind me asking, what motivated you? Were you afraid of law enforcement ever catching up? Was is just pure scene cred it even that did not matter much?

As a 15yo in the mid-90’s I was a member of and courier for a group called FaTe. Did it all over a 28.8k and later 56k modem. It was so much fun and I never once considered actually getting caught - it never felt real and the friends made along the way were worth it, at least in my case. Went to college and gave it all up. Studied a science but came back to IT and get paid today off of the skills I started learning back then.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#158

Post by lapinot »

mlyle wrote: post #146
jokethrowaway wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be the case. It's a breach of contract. They should repay the damaged counterpart if they can prove they had a sales contract in place.

> It's a breach of contract. Says your own novel legal theory, which has as much basis as trying to tell the cop that's pulled me over that I'm a sovereign citizen. > They should repay the damaged counterpart if they can prove they had a sales contract in place. We give monopolies on copying to encourage production of high quality yet easily-copyable work. If someone can just immediately start selling the good withou…

> It's the free-rider problem.

Uuh. Free software would be to differ. Commoditization of intellectual property enable people to do useful productive work as a hobby. And everyone gets encouraged to work with the strongest stream collaboratively.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#159

Post by hackerlight »

cortesoft wrote: post #52
sedatk wrote: post #26

I'm pretty sure that I'd have stopped with just probation, yes. Having the feds raid your house, confiscate all your gear, and put you through the hell of their investigations for a year was enough of a wake up call for me. The gap between a sufficient punishment and what he actually got is the harshest reality in all this. It's very similar to what people have gone through for small marijuana related offenses.

This is why I never understand people who get mad at ‘lenient’ sentences for crimes. There are no crimes I would commit where, say, 1 year in prison wouldn’t be a deterrent but 5 years would be. If the point of prison is to deter crime, then adding longer sentences isn’t going to change anything.

Because deterrence and rehabilitation aren't the only purpose of prison time. Protecting society is another. You don't ever want a Ted Bundy back on the street, because rehabilitation is probably impossible, whatever is messed up in his brain to make him like that is there for life. These violent sociopaths must be locked up forever. Admittedly, these people are a small proportion of all people in prison.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#160

Post by wil421 »

marcodiego wrote: post #84
codezero wrote: post #62

I was a member of Razor back in the day. I noticed that he mentioned he wouldn't say how he got Quake released before release date. I can share how I participated in an early release: I had befriended the manager of Electronics Boutique because I bought frequently there for many years prior to getting into pirating games. He would give me games that arrived but weren't on the shelf yet. From there, it was uploaded to…

"...adults got sent to jail and had their lives ruined." I'm sure it is a polemic terrain, but I really wonder if this is fair. Eager to hear opinions.

18 year olds are called young adults for a reason. I think it’s harsh to do it to 18-21ish year olds but over 25, maybe, but over 30 you know what you’re getting into. If you want to live that kind of life you have to except consequences. Ideology isn’t going to save you.

The same applies to scams, drug dealing, and other nefarious activities.

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