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Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

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Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#41

Post by kube-system »

2636381321 wrote: post #31
cruntly wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He ruined the lives of many hard-working software developers who relied on selling their code to feed their families. This was back when programming was a highly skilled and difficult job that only a few could do, so cracking was even more harshly targeting people.

More like telling the whole world "you're not allowed to copy this, because I wrote it" and threatening everyone with imprisonment or fines if you do. So everyone has to buy it through him, or else. To feed his family. That is what copyright law fundamentally is. We all learn from other people, just because I came up with an idea, I cannot tell other people "you're not allowed to use it". It violates other peoples na…

> just because I came up with an idea, I cannot tell other people "you're not allowed to use it".

You're right, ideas are not protected by copyright.

Copyright only protects original works of authorship.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#42

Post by breck »

This guy is a hero.

What he did should not be a crime.

It's time for a Freedom to Publish Amendment:

    Section 1. Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of this Constitution is hereby repealed.
    Section 2. Congress shall make no law abridging the right of the people to publish or implement ideas.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#43

Post by coldacid »

sedatk wrote: post #37
abigail95 wrote: post #19

Why do people like him think copyright laws are bad and made by rich people, but also support open source software, which relies on the same copyright laws to exist. If hes an anarchist then fine, but it looks like he wants laws that benefit him and not people that actually write software. I read the whole thing and I still don't know why he did it. He says there was no money incentive and his work had no impact on p…

> What was its purpose then? Clout, reputation, group identity, coolness factor. It's similar to how demoscene operates.

>It's similar to how demoscene operates.

Considering that the demoscene spun off the cracking scene...

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#44

Post by kube-system »

bentley wrote: post #33
abigail95 wrote: post #19

Why do people like him think copyright laws are bad and made by rich people, but also support open source software, which relies on the same copyright laws to exist. If hes an anarchist then fine, but it looks like he wants laws that benefit him and not people that actually write software. I read the whole thing and I still don't know why he did it. He says there was no money incentive and his work had no impact on p…

Only some free software licenses rely heavily on copyright law as their primary mechanism. Permissive licensing, or something like it, would continue to exist if copyright as a concept disappeared tomorrow.

Permissive licenses are not public domain waivers, they usually have some other disclaimers of liability, a requirement to include that provision in all copies, etc. In a world without copyright, OSS devs will need to find another way to shield themselves from liability.

However, what would realistically happen in a hypothetical world without copyright, is that commercial organizations will stop most OSS development and revert to distributing obfuscated binaries.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#45

Post by xtracto »

cruntly wrote: post #20
sigg3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cracking software doesn't warrant hard prison sentences. That's a double negative for society.

He ruined the lives of many hard-working software developers who relied on selling their code to feed their families. This was back when programming was a highly skilled and difficult job that only a few could do, so cracking was even more harshly targeting people.

I dont agree with Copyright and also dont think the punishment was deserved. I also did some cracking and keygens in the 90s (for fun, never released anything).

Nevertheless, my making argument against doing and condoning what this guy did is that, because of those type of actions today we have to deal with SaaS only software that is subscription based and stops working after the company folds (I can still use my Win16 copy of GetRight, thankyou very much).

We got into this sad state because of greed, from both sides of the counter.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#47

Post by linuxftw »

sedatk wrote: post #26

I'm pretty sure that I'd have stopped with just probation, yes. Having the feds raid your house, confiscate all your gear, and put you through the hell of their investigations for a year was enough of a wake up call for me. The gap between a sufficient punishment and what he actually got is the harshest reality in all this. It's very similar to what people have gone through for small marijuana related offenses.

That's why it's always important the jury be educated on their rights to decide verdicts however they see fit.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#48

Post by shagie »

bentley wrote: post #33
abigail95 wrote: post #19

Why do people like him think copyright laws are bad and made by rich people, but also support open source software, which relies on the same copyright laws to exist. If hes an anarchist then fine, but it looks like he wants laws that benefit him and not people that actually write software. I read the whole thing and I still don't know why he did it. He says there was no money incentive and his work had no impact on p…

Only some free software licenses rely heavily on copyright law as their primary mechanism. Permissive licensing, or something like it, would continue to exist if copyright as a concept disappeared tomorrow.

While I am generally in favor of permissive licensing and accept the corresponding "yes, the code can get incorporated into other projects"...

That same copyright law protects my photographs. I am generally in favor of strong copyright laws.

There are also philosophies of software licensing that want to ensure that the user can have access to the code that uses my code. Under those philosophies, it is the protections granted by the limited right to prepare derivative works that allow that licensing to have teeth and enforce a copy left.

Without copyright, the GPL and corresponding licensing that is written with the desire to be able to guarantee the 2nd and 4th freedoms (access to the source for some product and ability to modify the code for that product) have no teeth and those cannot be guaranteed.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#49

Post by vkou »

beardedwizard wrote: post #29
cruntly wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He ruined the lives of many hard-working software developers who relied on selling their code to feed their families. This was back when programming was a highly skilled and difficult job that only a few could do, so cracking was even more harshly targeting people.

Can you really point to a single other person whose life was ruined other than the guy who went to prison?

Their lives weren't 'ruined', just like nobody's life is 'ruined' when someone (over multiple trips) shoplifts a few thousand (or tens of thousands of) dollars worth of goods from a large store chain.

But someone, somewhere along the way did lose some amount of money.

The fact that the sentence was only 18 months reflects that, somewhat.

Re: Shane Pitman, leader of the warez group Razor 1911: life after prison (2005)

#50

Post by varispeed »

danschuller wrote: post #15

It doesn't serve society at all for this type of non-violent crime to result in prison time.

But it serves corporations that governments work for.

and it's ironic that we pay for it while big corporations can avoid paying taxes as they please.

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