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KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

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Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#41

Post by dale_glass »

This sounds pretty silly.

Now fuck Russia and all, but this guy is convinced that Russia managed to worm into American consciousness in the mid 80s, to the point of raising an entire generation of people who believe what Russia wants them to believe.

That just doesn't add up to me. Now not being American I don't know what things were over there, but at least I can recall that in the 80s and 90s, Russians were the standard bad guys in Hollywood movies, and the Cold War, and McCarthyism is somewhere in that timeline as well. Nothing much seems to indicate this "demoralization" step got anywhere close to actually happening.

It also seems very unlikely that at that point in history, USSR would have enough access to the US to raise entire generations that thought the things the USSR wanted them to.

I think it's more likely he was just opportunistically feeding the fears prevalent at the time he was speaking.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#42

Post by dralley »

Modern Russian propaganda is not all that similar to anything the Soviet Union was interested in. There is no serious ideological backbone to it. It's all about putting out multitudes of conflicting narratives, giving people the "choice" to latch onto the ones they sympathize with most closely, and undermining the very concept of truth, democracy etc. "alternative facts", if you will.

Timothy Snyder's description is more accurate to what goes on in the modern day state of Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-SEQDQidM (particularly starting around 18m26s and later at 39m19s)

Also the CIA questioned Bezmenov and found that he couldn't answer questions that he ought to know the answers to, about basic things like who his chain of command were.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#43

Post by konart »

rexreed wrote: post #14
anigbrowl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should ask, though, what makes improvement impossible.

A rational person would indeed ask that. Is that what we're dealing with tho?

>Is that what we're dealing with tho?

Assuming both side have the same information? No. But this is would be a very strange assumption.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#44

Post by Insanity »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #3
noduerme wrote: post #2

It's crazy. I know a Russian guy who is exactly like this; I debate with him all the time. Almost every night. About the war. Bluntly invested in winning, regardless of what the system looks like; even admitting that it's a terrible system; using weak arguments for why people need structural dominance, while simultaneously arguing in favor of "the people" - (and using a historical American failings as a way to draw f…

I believe you, and as a counterpoint I've known many Russians and they uniformly were _not_ like the Russian guy you know. Those I knew expressly mocked the incompetence of letting essentially mobsters pretend to run a country (their country). It reminded me of a much larger scale version of old mobster tales from big cities in the US, long before my time.

As with everything you indeed can not generalize for an entire population. - I’m in the same boat as you with my Russian friends and acquaintances :)

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#45

Post by illwrks »

noduerme wrote: post #2

It's crazy. I know a Russian guy who is exactly like this; I debate with him all the time. Almost every night. About the war. Bluntly invested in winning, regardless of what the system looks like; even admitting that it's a terrible system; using weak arguments for why people need structural dominance, while simultaneously arguing in favor of "the people" - (and using a historical American failings as a way to draw f…

A friend of a friend is exactly like this. Extremely skewed opinions on 'facts'. Whenever I meet them I avoid any topic to do with politics or the war, I just don't have the time or patience, they are too far down the rabbit hole.

An American lady I know, her elderly mother was to the same extreme with Trump in the US... Social media and propaganda is a curse.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#46

Post by mattknightlewis »

herbstein wrote: post #10

This interview keeps coming up, and I don't really understand why. It's utterly uninteresting. Bezmenov had an inconsequential role in the KGB. He was not privy to any large-scale details. Bezmenov defected in 1970. After his defection would not be privy to any new information. The interview is from 1984 and not 1985 as the title purports. Ultimately, the claims in this video are categorically false. We can observe t…

I've always felt there's something very Yakov Smirnoff about him. He flatters western sensibilities too directly.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#47

Post by timeon »

pessimizer wrote: post #9
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not comparable. Reminds me of this joke: Sure, the Soviet Union has free speech, just like in America. In the US, you can stand in front of the White House and yell, "Down with Reagan," and it's fine. Moscow is like that too. You can stand on Red Square and yell, "Down with Reagan." No problem at all

[flagged]

> The US has banned Russian media

You can still access Новая газета from US. Although this may change since their rights are continually being decreased in Russia where they are based. Anyway my point is that your claim is false.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#48

Post by CalChris »

dale_glass wrote: post #41

This sounds pretty silly. Now fuck Russia and all, but this guy is convinced that Russia managed to worm into American consciousness in the mid 80s, to the point of raising an entire generation of people who believe what Russia wants them to believe. That just doesn't add up to me. Now not being American I don't know what things were over there, but at least I can recall that in the 80s and 90s, Russians were the sta…

I agree about the 80s. If anything, we viewed them as a bigger threat than they really were, our defense industry in particular. But the USSR fell apart in 1989 and Russia was a spent force in the 90s. We bought Ukraine’s nukes with money because we could. But we, George W Bush really, then underestimated Russia in the 2000s.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#50

Post by [deleted] »

j0hnyl wrote: post #23
orangepurple wrote: post #21

FSB shills are out in full force on HN on this one trying to discredit him with exceptional pilpul and deflection. I grew up in the Eastern Bloc and find his stories plausible. Everything Bezmenov said is true. Watch the entire interview.

Hasn't a lot of this guy's rhetoric and credentials been debunked over and over as a bit hyperbolic. I mean... the guy made a career out of selling fear?

[deleted]
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