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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#311

Post by JustSomeNobody »

ibejoeb wrote: post #266
Tangurena2 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father was a chemical engineer. Back in the 60s & 70s, the company would pay to relocate our family to wherever they needed him (this included purchasing the house if we didn't sell it before the moving trucks showed up). That included several foreign countries. In my family's experience, that included England, Iran, Ireland & Saudi Arabia. During the 80s, his industry stopped relocating engineers. This correspond…

If companies start buying upside-down homes, they're probably going to start holding them until they can at least wash out. I'd hate to see a trend of employers becoming landlords.

But you know that's where we're headed. Little fiefdoms. Starbucks will start buying apartment complexes. "If you don't join that union, we'll pay for your housing!" Then fill them up 4 to an apartment. Then you'll see deductions on your paycheck for electric and internet. Soon you'll barely be making enough to feed yourself, but at least you'll be dry.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#312

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #309
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only works if they put the office in the quieter back-road section near you. Otherwise you're driving all the way across town. The last company I was with I talked with the owner and he was clear why they chose downtown - yes, it sucked, but it sucked pretty equally for everyone. Downtown is also the place with the most transit going to it - you're excluding anyone who doesn't/can't drive if you choose to build…

It depends on the downtown. Where I live there's almost no transit to downtown and because of traffic, a 20 minute commute turns into an hour. If instead you have a few smaller offices in the burbs outside of downtown, you could save a lot of time for workers as they would be traveling counter-commute.

That's interesting - how large is the city you're in that has an hour commute but little transit?

I don't understand the value of having a few smaller burb offices - does your entire team have to go to the one you're at (even if they are on opposite sides of the city, thus negating the advantage of it being close), or do they each go their own and then do remote calls to discuss things (thus negating the advantage of it being in office)?

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#314

Post by rychco »

m3kw9 wrote: post #304

Commute is a huge factor for remote workers. Most rural ppl travelling to downtown has to endure either rush hour traffic or crowded subways plus avg an hour each way.

Agree, the commute is 90% of the reason I'd like to stay remote. I think I'd prefer an office in some cases, but wasting an additional 1-2 hours is unreasonable.

Here's an idea, I'd be willing to return to office if my workday was 6 hours - with no change in pay - to make up for the time I'm wasting in traffic.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#315

Post by kneebonian »

ibejoeb wrote: post #266
Tangurena2 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father was a chemical engineer. Back in the 60s & 70s, the company would pay to relocate our family to wherever they needed him (this included purchasing the house if we didn't sell it before the moving trucks showed up). That included several foreign countries. In my family's experience, that included England, Iran, Ireland & Saudi Arabia. During the 80s, his industry stopped relocating engineers. This correspond…

If companies start buying upside-down homes, they're probably going to start holding them until they can at least wash out. I'd hate to see a trend of employers becoming landlords.

Realtor: "I see your interested in this area. Over here we have Amazon lane, if you buy one of those houses you'll get prime delivery for free. The next street over is Azure Fields if you buy a home there you'll get 50% off a 10 year office 365 subscription.

And down there is Ikea homes. You pay a premium but can customize it however you want. You'll also have to put it together yourself.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#316

Post by RajT88 »

I've worked remotely for years now (still less than 10). It's OK. It took a while to get used to.

I am not a full-time SWE, so it's better when I am coding on things. The quiet and lack of distraction is important. Even then, I turn on some music and put on headphones.

What was very useful to me when I was working in an office was the hallway conversations, and making all the random connections. You would find opportunities to learn and get involved with things, and expand your sphere of influence. There's pros and cons.

I'm not sure leadership understands the utility of quiet and isolation for coders. As well, there's the concern about "How do we know they're working" - which is a very old school way of thinking.

That old school way of thinking also goes like, "We pay you to be here 8 hours a day, so you better be here and not screwing around". But that's not really what you're being paid for in a SWE position. If you aren't meeting your KPI's (hitting deadlines, pushing good code, spreading knowledge, etc.) you'll get fired. Because you're getting paid to perform well, not just sit there working - you're paid to work well.

So - if you hire people who can hit every KPI and work 20 hours a week, who cares? You're not paying someone hourly anyways. You're paying a salaried worker.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#317

Post by NineStarPoint »

roenxi wrote: post #245
hansbo wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cheaper to raise kids since you would already have paid the cost in taxes if you didn't get kids. The important metric is the difference in cost of having kids vs not having kids, and since daycare is heavily subsidized, the difference is small. Same things go for schools, food in schools, universities, et.c., they are all "free", as in paid for by everyone in proportion to their wealth, instead of individually…

If we start with the assumption that the cost of childcare is costly enough that it would lead to an unacceptable drop in living standards for the average couple, and then force them to pay that cost anyway ( regardless of whether they actually have children) it is unlikely that the follow up is going to be the couple having kids. They'll probably be busy desperately working to get their living standard up to a state…

Main problem with your logic is that it assumes a situation where most people are having kids. Given the situation in Scandinavia is that many people aren’t having children, you end up in a situation where everyone is being taxed to fund childcare, while most people aren’t actually taking advantage of that taxation, so those who are can actually gain more resources than they put in.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#318

Post by Robotbeat »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #297
lucidguppy wrote: post #203

I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. These don't really exist though, and their expense far outweighs their benefits. The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not. It's called putting down roots for a reason. Pulling kids out of school, buying a new house is very disruptive.…

> I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. Funny that you say this. I could only be convinced to come to an office if my employer satisfied the following conditions: - accessible in - no or minimal video meetings in the office; I'm not taking the time to come in to sit on the same video calls I could take at ho…

I’m lucky to have bought a duplex starter home for like $135k, 8 years ago before prices skyrocketed. It has off street parking and a garage so we can park and charge our two electric cars. The overall level of safety is high on the immediate area I live in, I don’t worry about break-ins.

It’s in a walkable neighborhood a few blocks from a preschool and elementary school we send our kids to plus a park and little beach by the river/ocean. There are also nice neighborhood restaurants and cafe & ice cream parlor and library and community garden plus like consignment shops, etc. Tons of awesome neighborhood events around Halloween, Christmas, 4th of July, etc, plus a regular farmer’s market, etc… all this within east walking distance (even for kids).

My work is 15 minutes by car, low stress commute overall. It has a beautiful common space with a nice kitchen. It doesn’t have a stove or a dishwasher, but the fridge and microwave are super nice, beautiful stone counters with a nice dish washing sink, place for sitting and eating, making coffee via electric kettle, etc. It’s part of our communal “maker space” so we can have great conversations while eating lunch and watching our 3D prints complete. Plus very affordable snack bar, and a cafeteria within walking distance. I also have my own office and lab space which aren’t beautiful, but are nice to have.

Our house and yard are small and not super nice cosmetically, the income isn’t high for 3 kids and a spouse that has to stay home to take care of them, but every time I think about moving or taking a higher paid job, I realize how lucky this situation is. And how I could easily spend twice as much for a house only marginally better or three times as much for a larger and cosmetically better house in a non-walkable area.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#319

Post by locustous »

Barrin92 wrote: post #61
sharemywin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet if we don't want a massive population decline we need to figure out how to raise kids and have a decent standard of living. Even if there's only one parent in the picture.

throw the nuclear family back into the dumpster where it belongs. The most straightforward answer how two working parents raise a kids is, they don't. At least alone. It takes a village as the proverb goes. If you have your grandparents and your uncles, aunts and other folks around as I was lucky enough to have growing up you're never bored, and they're never bored.

There is no adequate alternative to loving parents. "The village" can only help or hinder, not replace.

The primary factor to success and happiness in life is your family structure and having their loving guidance and support.

Today, the village mostly hinders. Few people have experience with children anymore and most are self centered. Their "help" mostly consists of direct criticism, or indirect criticism in calling the authorities.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#320

Post by rychco »

mgaunard wrote: post #270

Working from home is a sham. It doesn't work. It's just a way to enable lazy people to keep on coasting. If you're dedicated to the job and want to be a team player, go to the office.

In what way does it not work, when perhaps my position only requires that I attend virtual meetings, push code to a remote repository/depot, & edit online documents? What does my presence in the office, offer in value to the business? What does my presence in the office, offer in value to ME?
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