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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#301

Post by tracker1 »

ibejoeb wrote: post #293
tracker1 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that would be worse than the capital driven land-lord situation. I mean, in terms of renting out a house from a former employee until real estate improves enough to sell. Odds are it would be done via the same rental mgt companies that everyone else uses anyway. At least as long as the company isn't pushing to keep said properties longer than necessary.

It's "fine" as long as the employee isn't paying rent to the employer. There's just way to much risk of things going straight to hell.

Yeah, that is generally bad. While it may be legal, I think it's entirely unethical to have conflicting interests at play in a business. Part of why I hate that Sony, for example, controls both the tech (Bluray, hardware, etc) and media investments. Or insurance providers owning stakes in pharma.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#302

Post by TallGuyShort »

lucidguppy wrote: post #203

I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. These don't really exist though, and their expense far outweighs their benefits. The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not. It's called putting down roots for a reason. Pulling kids out of school, buying a new house is very disruptive.…

> The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not

I would add, many software companies expect employees to work in such a way that working remotely has to be viable anyway. My direct coworkers were split across multiple Bay Area offices. I had projects going on with other companies, some of them in Seattle. I was encouraged to attend and present at conferences in other cities. I dealt with teams distributed across Europe.

Now, getting face to face time with all of these people is an important part of building relationships, but most of those meetings simply have to be online. I noticed that even though I had a home office, my boss virtually never saw me doing my most important work, because we were both in and out of meetings. I was willing to be dutiful employee who shows up to the office, and attends meetings in-person when I could, but invariably someone else in the meeting wouldn't or couldn't and we'd have to dial them in remotely anyway (ironically, this happen the most with a certain company who claims that they can't make remote work viable - their own employees would not attend meetings in person at their own employer's office).

If you're already in that situation, why can't I live where I want? You already can't assess my productivity by looking at me at a desk. I already have to have a significant remote component to all meetings. When I really need to travel, I can travel. But day to day, you've already had to have the technology and processes to allow people to be distributed for a long time. Let me take advantage of it too.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#303

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

jen20 wrote: post #296
lucidguppy wrote: post #203

I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. These don't really exist though, and their expense far outweighs their benefits. The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not. It's called putting down roots for a reason. Pulling kids out of school, buying a new house is very disruptive.…

I very much feel the opposite way. If my company had offices downtown (where I live, because I like being able to walk to get a beer), I would go every day. But they don’t - they’re in a suburban sprawl, at minimum a 30 minute drive - more like an hour during rush hour. I would quit on the spot if there were ever an attempt to make me go to the office on a fixed schedule.

I chose a home with good transit to downtown. If I have to drive to an industrial sector across town each day to get to work I probably won't even consider the position.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#305

Post by lastofthemojito »

ibejoeb wrote: post #266
Tangurena2 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father was a chemical engineer. Back in the 60s & 70s, the company would pay to relocate our family to wherever they needed him (this included purchasing the house if we didn't sell it before the moving trucks showed up). That included several foreign countries. In my family's experience, that included England, Iran, Ireland & Saudi Arabia. During the 80s, his industry stopped relocating engineers. This correspond…

If companies start buying upside-down homes, they're probably going to start holding them until they can at least wash out. I'd hate to see a trend of employers becoming landlords.

I wonder if the company actually took ownership of the house or just managed a purchase for the employee. I knew someone who worked for the federal government and relocated for a job and took advantage of this kind of benefit. But I don't believe the federal government actually took ownership of the house - I think it was more like, they found the best quick cash offer, and then paid out the amount between that and the appraised value. So the employee gets rid of their house for the appraised value, the employer gets the employee where they're needed and some house flipping company gets some inventory.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#306

Post by alkonaut »

I think the office as a concept will need to change, and is going to change. We already started changing it for the worse decades ago with open spaces, non-permanent workplaces and so on.

The thing we fear losing out on is the social aspect where you learn to understand people by meeting them more and observing them work. You see when they are happy and or stressed, even when you don't have a face-to-face call. You can have unplanned conversations. I have been remote for 10 years but I do understand the value in this.

The idea of going to an office against your will to sit there quietly and work (or even do video calls), is obviously going away companies aren't going to afford making people do that, because of all things you can do with an edge in compensation, that feels like the worst investment.

We need more models for teams than just "office", "remote" or "hybrid". We need "commute hybrid" where everyone can come in regularly say once a week, and "travel hybrid" where people can show up for say one week per quarter or similar. The problem as I see it is choosing one of these models, and making it work for a team or company. What do you do if you have a team that is "commute hybrid" while some are "travel hybrid" or fully remote? (I'm in that situation myself now and it's not without friction).

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#307

Post by Robotbeat »

lucidguppy wrote: post #203

I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. These don't really exist though, and their expense far outweighs their benefits. The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not. It's called putting down roots for a reason. Pulling kids out of school, buying a new house is very disruptive.…

We absolutely should make housing more affordable. The problem is we’ve built most middle class wealth on housing as a scarce and always-appreciating asset, and tons of peoples’ retirements are essentially counting on that continuing. We’re impoverishing the young to enrich the old, and there’s no easy way out.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#308

Post by sirwhinesalot »

mgaunard wrote: post #270

Working from home is a sham. It doesn't work. It's just a way to enable lazy people to keep on coasting. If you're dedicated to the job and want to be a team player, go to the office.

I am not dedicated to the job beyond doing what is asked for me to the best of my ability and my team is distributed all over the world (in fact, 0 are in my office).

I exchange my time, skills and knowledge for money. If the company wants that time to be spent sitting on a chair at a particular location, they need to pay me more than one that does not.

I feel sorry for people like you who make their job their life. The company has no dedication to you.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#309

Post by bcrosby95 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #271
giancarlostoro wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. This right here. If I could get to work and back in 5 minutes I wouldn't mind the commute, ever. Unfortunately everyone wants to have offices in some downtown area, instead of just near a major city in a quieter part of town, safe back-roads that wont bother anyone.

This only works if they put the office in the quieter back-road section near you. Otherwise you're driving all the way across town. The last company I was with I talked with the owner and he was clear why they chose downtown - yes, it sucked, but it sucked pretty equally for everyone. Downtown is also the place with the most transit going to it - you're excluding anyone who doesn't/can't drive if you choose to build…

It depends on the downtown. Where I live there's almost no transit to downtown and because of traffic, a 20 minute commute turns into an hour.

If instead you have a few smaller offices in the burbs outside of downtown, you could save a lot of time for workers as they would be traveling counter-commute.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#310

Post by patrickmay »

forinti wrote: post #167

I spent the pandemic working all kinds of hours, and now management wants people back in the office. It does feel like my effort is not valued, but an ex colleague once said something really interesting: if you are sacrificing yourself to compensate for your company's shortcomings, they will never get fixed. So if something has to be deployed to production, it now has to be done during normal working hours. I'm not g…

> if you are sacrificing yourself to compensate for your company's shortcomings, they will never get fixed.

My current director phrases that as "Externalize your pain."

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