Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely • Hacker News Board

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#221

Post by barbariangrunge » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

shrikant wrote: post #84

misja111 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Scandinavia there is free daycare. It works great, gender inequality in the workplace is amongst the lowest in the world. There is no stigma on bringing your kids to the daycare, like in some traditional Western countries; it is actually the opposite, people feel it's good for kids to be with others of their same age. However birth rates are dropping there as much as in all the other rich countries. So the problem…

(I often try and struggle to explain my thoughts on this, but I'll try again.) I keep hearing here in the UK that the reason people aren't having kids is because it's so expensive, and I do what you do -- point people at the stats in Scandinavia where a huge chunk of childcare costs is borne by the state, and yet the birth rates are dropping. My theory on this, and one that I personally felt as well, is that there's…

Women in the west are guilt tripped into having careers now and looked down on for being stay at home parents full time. Men have always been in this boat. Why would they have more kids when neither parent has time for the ones they already have? So we see them end up with 1-2 kids instead of many

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#222

Post by paulcole » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

NickBusey wrote: post #207

paulcole wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this idea that anyone is “forcing” anyone to do anything. And I see the word used so often in the remote work conversations. It’s like saying that Tesla “forces” people to work on electric cars. It’s what their business is! You’re not being forced to commute if your job is in-office anymore than you’re forced to eat canned asparagus if it’s the only vegetable in your cupboard. You can choose to not eat it or y…

I hate this idea that you either have to be happy with 100% of your job, or you have to find a new one.

I’m not sure if you’re saying that I believe you have to be happy with 100% of your job or you have to find a new one?

Because I definitely don’t:

> You either go to the office or look for a new job.

In case it’s not clear from that, I agree with you. There’s parts of every job that suck. You just have to choose whether the benefits outweighs those sucky parts.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Post by precompute » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

SyrupThinker wrote: post #27

andersa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is? It's time you can't spend on your hobbies. Of course, if repeatedly driving the same route every day is one of those, then go ahead.

To be fair the grandparent post did not elaborate, but not everyone is locked into doing nothing during their commute. People using public transport might be able to do all sorts of things like reading or creative work. That’s of course hard if you need to drive yourself. But if you are able to make good use of that time one could consider it not lost. Maybe commute should be clocked in for jobs that don’t rely on ph…

Commute does not allow for flow-like experiences.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#224

Post by shard » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

NickBusey wrote: post #207

paulcole wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this idea that anyone is “forcing” anyone to do anything. And I see the word used so often in the remote work conversations. It’s like saying that Tesla “forces” people to work on electric cars. It’s what their business is! You’re not being forced to commute if your job is in-office anymore than you’re forced to eat canned asparagus if it’s the only vegetable in your cupboard. You can choose to not eat it or y…

I hate this idea that you either have to be happy with 100% of your job, or you have to find a new one.

Yes. There are many reasons why someone would work at a job that doesn't make them happy, chief amongst those is supporting their family as best they can. Along those lines, I've had a coworker tell me: "Don't get good at doing something you hate."

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Post by watwut » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

orangepurple wrote: post #172

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people are still having a lot of kids, it's the developed world that has a problem. I think the decline is birthrate is much better explained by material wealth and the corresponding education of women that goes along with it as causes of the drop.

If you are having a substantial amount of kids at least one partner's income is entirely eaten up by childcare expenses so it is cheaper to simply not work and take care of the kids full time.

The other thing is ability to control the amount of children. Knowledge of contraception and its availabity. Because even if you are stay at home and committed to be, things are much simpler with 4 kids then with 9.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#226

Post by watwut » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #61

sharemywin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet if we don't want a massive population decline we need to figure out how to raise kids and have a decent standard of living. Even if there's only one parent in the picture.

throw the nuclear family back into the dumpster where it belongs. The most straightforward answer how two working parents raise a kids is, they don't. At least alone. It takes a village as the proverb goes. If you have your grandparents and your uncles, aunts and other folks around as I was lucky enough to have growing up you're never bored, and they're never bored.

Related expectation is that in that setup, you are expected to help grandparents, uncles and aunts too. It also means the other family members have a say into how you run your own house, what you do, what your kids do and so on. As in, a lot of independence people cherish goes out of window.

In particular, it could mean that you cant move to SV for better job, because some relative depends on you.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#227

Post by booleandilemma » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #117

I wonder whether people demand Async work and whether it is a trend

Just await for it.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#228

Post by Tangurena2 » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:35 PM UTC

lucidguppy wrote: post #203

I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. These don't really exist though, and their expense far outweighs their benefits. The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not. It's called putting down roots for a reason. Pulling kids out of school, buying a new house is very disruptive.…

My father was a chemical engineer. Back in the 60s & 70s, the company would pay to relocate our family to wherever they needed him (this included purchasing the house if we didn't sell it before the moving trucks showed up). That included several foreign countries. In my family's experience, that included England, Iran, Ireland & Saudi Arabia. During the 80s, his industry stopped relocating engineers. This corresponded to the end of "the Social Contract" where as long as you were loyal to your company, they had a job for you - for life. When you watch that "Greed is Good" speech from Gordon Gecko [0], notice that table of old farts at the front of the room: that's where they promote the loyal employees (into "executive vice presidencies") when there isn't enough room at the top of the pyramid (and also they're too incompetent to promote in actual line management [1]).

By the 90s, companies stopped paying for relocation of anyone below managerial levels. And instead depended on workers being able to afford to relocate on their own $.

This brings us to today's economy. Large companies, instead of laying older workers off, simply relocate their position to a new office. IBM (who used to be called "I've Been Moved") has a reputation for doing this to their US-based workforce especially when over age 40. If you can't afford to relocate? Great, that's now a "voluntary quit".

If companies want employees to "move where the jobs are", they need to step up to the plate and start paying for relocation. And that includes buying upside-down homes.

0 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_iorX_MAw

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#229

Post by shard » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:36 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #192

shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not forced to work at any particular company This is just false. People can be stuck at a company for a variety of reasons.

I’ve never met a good programmer who didn’t always have a trail of unsolicited job offers following them. Obviously there are many situations, but I think many people can be selective about where they work.

And what does that mean for the largest group in the bell curve: the medium skilled programmer, who does ok but nonmagical work? Not everyone has the ability to be one or two standard deviations above the median.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Post by reachableceo » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 1:38 PM UTC

bsagdiyev wrote: post #144

zdyn5 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to say but sweet docile 8 month old girl is EZ mode and very different from a 3 year old boy running around banging on your office door demanding your attention every 20 minutes. Source: have 3 yo boy and 7 mo girl, even with stay at home mom to help. The girl’s presence is almost unnoticeable during work hours unless I want to see her, it’s fully under my control. The boy is a totally different story. Wouldn’t…

Will second this. I typically work later in to the day/night because our son is loud during the day and it can be hard to focus so I shift my hours.

So instead of setting boundaries and ensuring appropriate behavior and social skills for your child , you surrender to him and shift your work hours ?

Why?

That’s not healthy for either party.