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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#191

Post by prepend »

deepGem wrote: post #181
tarsinge wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My meandering point is that: everyone has different life situations Yes, so it's not about preferences, it's not about the pros and cons, it's about not forcing people for needless suffering. Forcing people who want or need (professionally or personally) to work with other people at home is absurd, and forcing people who provide better work at home (for jobs were it makes no difference to be in office) to commute a…

The consistent response I have gotten from managers is that more or less - people fake work sitting in their homes or work multiple jobs, and we collaborate better when we are sitting in an office. They use this as a force function to pull employees back into the office. I call BS on all of these. Employees faking work - your hiring problem. Employees working multiple jobs - again your problem, keep them occupied wit…

> people fake work sitting in their homes

People fake work sitting in offices. If someone is going to fake work in the office, why not let them fake work from home and safe everyone a hassle. Or maybe incentivize real work over fake work.

I worked with someone in the office next to mine for a few years and he was running a side business the whole time. It was bizarre how brazen he was, but people are interesting and varied.

Remote work isn’t perfect, but it’s not like office work was perfect either. It’s like showing an example of a welfare cheat and saying “we can’t give welfare to help parents because people claim imaginary kids.”

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#192

Post by prepend »

shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #173
3np wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. So some people will work for remote-first companies and some people will for for office-first companies. There's no one-size-fits all and different companies will work with different models. You're not forced to work at any particular company and no company should be expected to be the right place for all profiles. (Within that the employer of course does have responsibilities to accommodate employee differenti…

> You're not forced to work at any particular company This is just false. People can be stuck at a company for a variety of reasons.

I’ve never met a good programmer who didn’t always have a trail of unsolicited job offers following them.

Obviously there are many situations, but I think many people can be selective about where they work.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#193

Post by roenxi »

shrikant wrote: post #84
misja111 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Scandinavia there is free daycare. It works great, gender inequality in the workplace is amongst the lowest in the world. There is no stigma on bringing your kids to the daycare, like in some traditional Western countries; it is actually the opposite, people feel it's good for kids to be with others of their same age. However birth rates are dropping there as much as in all the other rich countries. So the problem…

(I often try and struggle to explain my thoughts on this, but I'll try again.) I keep hearing here in the UK that the reason people aren't having kids is because it's so expensive, and I do what you do -- point people at the stats in Scandinavia where a huge chunk of childcare costs is borne by the state, and yet the birth rates are dropping. My theory on this, and one that I personally felt as well, is that there's…

> point people at the stats in Scandinavia where a huge chunk of childcare costs is borne by the state, and yet the birth rates are dropping.

What, the state that raises its funds by draining resources from families? The state paying for childcare can't make it cheaper to raise children; it just means everyone is living with the costs that they were already going to have to pay. On average, if the cost of raising kids is high people still won't be able to afford them.

If you walk through the logic more deeply; it is unlikely that the state paying for childcare can make it cheaper to raise children. Who is supposed to pay for the costs? People who were already willing and available to help before the state got involved!

And if the state mucks up any part of its policy, it will make it even more expensive by spending the money in sub-optimal ways.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#195

Post by stodor89 »

citrin_ru wrote: post #39
dt3ft wrote: post #2

Why would I commute (and in doing so lose 2 hours of my time per day)? Focusing in the office is next to impossible, the equipment is sub-par (I have a 3-monitor setup at home)? What is it about software engineering that requires physical presence? Currently we meet once a week in the office and I get almost no work done that day, and I’m not the only one.

I personally would prefer to working remotely (at least 4 days a week) unless my commute is less than 15-20 minutes but executives put significant value in seeing people working from the office. If they'll decide to save (offices are not cheap) and hire a remote developer what would stop from hiring around the world? Developer salaries in developed countries (and especially the US) are much higher than world average.…

Same culture makes communication way easier, and the main problem in most teams is actually communication.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#196

Post by taude »

I'm curious if other's have been experiencing this. I'm at my second job now where there's a big push to off-shore to India.

If you can be remote, to an exec, they might not see it too differently between you and offshore, except for how much better the bottom line is. We're even hiring roles that I thought I'd never see moved over there, too, like Product Managers.

I bet we'll see this trend increase.

Since this is my second go at offshoring everything. Compared to 2015, it's not nearly as cheap to go get offshore talent. It used to be about 1/6th the cost, now it's about 1/2....

I'm curious about other's experience with this. I took current job because we were a very tech-driven, high performing, highly-skilled company, and I never thought we'd move engineering jobs overseas to improve the bottom line.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#197

Post by mikkelam »

european single male pov: 1. I like my 30 minute bike ride to work 2. I like the social interaction, laughing, chatting and atmosphere of my office 3. I am less productive, but I'm not a machine. I (should) care about my well being more 4. I still work from home once in a while. Flexibility is key

But, everyone is different. I totally understand many people have a lot more reasons than me to work remotely

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#198

Post by drdec »

prepend wrote: post #192
shakes_mcjunkie wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not forced to work at any particular company This is just false. People can be stuck at a company for a variety of reasons.

I’ve never met a good programmer who didn’t always have a trail of unsolicited job offers following them. Obviously there are many situations, but I think many people can be selective about where they work.

You don't meet those good programmers because they are bad at networking. You are much more likely to meet the ones that are good at networking.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#199

Post by cdelsolar »

zdyn5 wrote: post #130
dustedcodes wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I work from home as a new dad of a nearly 8 month old girl now. The first 3 months I took off work to be a full time dad, but since then I've returned back to a 4 day work week and when I work Monday to Thursday I am not distracted by my baby girl at all. I have a separate room as an office, if the door is closed then it means no interruptions. My wife is still on maternity leave so she is free to do the…

Sorry to say but sweet docile 8 month old girl is EZ mode and very different from a 3 year old boy running around banging on your office door demanding your attention every 20 minutes. Source: have 3 yo boy and 7 mo girl, even with stay at home mom to help. The girl’s presence is almost unnoticeable during work hours unless I want to see her, it’s fully under my control. The boy is a totally different story. Wouldn’t…

I have a one and a half year old baby boy who comes to visit me every few hours even if I’m in the middle of a meeting, with a big smile on his face and usually calling for me in our own goofy language. I wouldn’t trade that for the world. (Maybe I’ll be singing a different tune next year though; haha)

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#200

Post by paulcole »

tarsinge wrote: post #95
dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

> My meandering point is that: everyone has different life situations Yes, so it's not about preferences, it's not about the pros and cons, it's about not forcing people for needless suffering. Forcing people who want or need (professionally or personally) to work with other people at home is absurd, and forcing people who provide better work at home (for jobs were it makes no difference to be in office) to commute a…

I hate this idea that anyone is “forcing” anyone to do anything. And I see the word used so often in the remote work conversations.

It’s like saying that Tesla “forces” people to work on electric cars. It’s what their business is!

You’re not being forced to commute if your job is in-office anymore than you’re forced to eat canned asparagus if it’s the only vegetable in your cupboard. You can choose to not eat it or you can go to the store and buy something else.

It doesn’t matter if you work better at home if your company is in office. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a job where being in office makes no difference. You either go to the office or look for a new job.

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