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HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

arstechnica.com

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Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#31

Post by nix23 »

louwrentius wrote: post #28
nix23 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Every manufacturer that abuses this mechanism for anything other than actual security updates should be fined in a way that registers on their stock price and if they do it twice they should be fined out of existence. No fines, just allow the customer to send back the devices and get a full refund plus all costs covered by the manufacturer...it could be so easy. Give back the HP and buy a Brother....that would be ca…

This is a problem not solved by the market, for many reasons, but the most important one is that they all try to do this sooner or later. Shareholder value must increase and be found somewhere. Only government regulations can keep capitalism in check, maybe an unpopular opinion on HN but it hurts startups too because the market is not penetrable for competition.

>Only government regulations can keep capitalism in check

That's what i mean, a customer is allowed to return a device/car/whatever and get fully refunded if the initial function of a device changes with no technical advantage for the customer.

Fines brings the Customer nothing (aka you don't get your money back) and is mostly small change for the company, no need to change anything...but paying full refunds for let's say a 4yo device, that could hurt allot.

Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#32

Post by gambiting »

cam_l wrote: post #22
arnon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's being facetious

maybe not.. my HP laptop did a BIOS update yesterday via windows shutdown without warning. turned it of because the battery was low. luckily I got the charger on it in time.

Tbf that's a mechanism integrated directly into Windows updates now and has nothing to do with HP. Any "critical" bios and CPU microcode updates can be done through Windows Update(and there isn't any good way to selectively block them).

Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#33

Post by gambiting »

Tepix wrote: post #18

How many times has HP dones this now? Who the hell is still buying HP printers? We, as dissminators should tell every consumer not to buy their crap. " It's a trap! "

People who need to print something now and reason with themselves that it's cheaper to buy a basic £29 HP printer because obviously they might need to print something again in the future(at which point the ink has long dried and new replacement is £39 for a cartridge).

Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#34

Post by bradfa »

kramerger wrote: post #4

Just imagine how much cheaper their printers and cartridges would be if they didn't waste money on security chips and OTA infrastructure

The “security” chips are very inexpensive. Both the physical chip and also the associated cost to engineer them into the product and to program them on the assembly line.

HP need an update capability or everyone would be outraged if they couldn’t patch CVE.

It’s basically free for HP to have this capability to block 3rd party ink. But it comes with a responsibility to not be a jerk, which they seem to have failed at.

Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#36

Post by plaguepilled »

nix23 wrote: post #24
jacquesm wrote: post #21

Remote update strikes again. Every manufacturer that abuses this mechanism for anything other than actual security updates should be fined in a way that registers on their stock price and if they do it twice they should be fined out of existence.

>Every manufacturer that abuses this mechanism for anything other than actual security updates should be fined in a way that registers on their stock price and if they do it twice they should be fined out of existence. No fines, just allow the customer to send back the devices and get a full refund plus all costs covered by the manufacturer...it could be so easy. Give back the HP and buy a Brother....that would be ca…

>No fines, just allow the customer to send back the devices and get a full refund plus all costs covered by the manufacturer...it could be so easy.

Wh-what? Yes fines! ABSOLUTELY yes fines! The punishment should be blunt, uniform, and intimidating! This is absolutely a situation for fines!

Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#37

Post by bradfa »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #23
Tepix wrote: post #18

How many times has HP dones this now? Who the hell is still buying HP printers? We, as dissminators should tell every consumer not to buy their crap. " It's a trap! "

DRM in printer supplies is hardly new. The first HP printer with DRM that comes to mind is the LaserJet 4100. RFID tags and whatnot, they backed off and went with cheaper solutions with the 4200 series. I think Lexmark pioneered selling the printers themselves as loss leaders. I think perhaps what's getting lost here is that in the consumer space printers are being sold on a razor and blade model. The printers themse…

Kodak had some serious reliability issues with the print heads in those printers. I think that was more the reason that it failed rather than consumers not liking the up front price on its own. No one likes buying what’s supposed to be the premium model just to have massive print head failures render your printer useless.

Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#38

Post by kramerger »

bradfa wrote: post #34
kramerger wrote: post #4

Just imagine how much cheaper their printers and cartridges would be if they didn't waste money on security chips and OTA infrastructure

The “security” chips are very inexpensive. Both the physical chip and also the associated cost to engineer them into the product and to program them on the assembly line. HP need an update capability or everyone would be outraged if they couldn’t patch CVE. It’s basically free for HP to have this capability to block 3rd party ink. But it comes with a responsibility to not be a jerk, which they seem to have failed at.

The security chips are getting more and more sophisticated as people start to crack the early versions. The R&D cost of this is pretty large, and so is the material costs.

You are only considering HP firmware update. But even in that there will be a huge cost for implementing, testing and deploying this new functionality.

Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#39

Post by mnd999 »

frankjr wrote: post #11
mnd999 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would consumer printing become irrelevant?

Maybe it's just my own little bubble but everything around me seems to be going digital. I used to print invoices / received printed invoices, communicated with the government with printed forms. These days I receive/send invoices via email, and communicate with the government via their web apps. I haven't printed anything in quite a while. And if I wanted to print a photo to put on a wall, I would probably go to a p…

I don’t print much, but i do need to print things several times a month, I would definitely miss it.

Probably my biggest use case is printing off maps for hiking trips.

Re: HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink

#40

Post by xxs »

nix23 wrote: post #31
louwrentius wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a problem not solved by the market, for many reasons, but the most important one is that they all try to do this sooner or later. Shareholder value must increase and be found somewhere. Only government regulations can keep capitalism in check, maybe an unpopular opinion on HN but it hurts startups too because the market is not penetrable for competition.

>Only government regulations can keep capitalism in check That's what i mean, a customer is allowed to return a device/car/whatever and get fully refunded if the initial function of a device changes with no technical advantage for the customer. Fines brings the Customer nothing (aka you don't get your money back) and is mostly small change for the company, no need to change anything...but paying full refunds for let'…

The onus is on the customers to realize that the has been an issue, and they would be eligible for a refund (minus inflation).

Then there are shipping costs, likely the customers bought it from a local retainer, that may or may not be in business... The endless emails and phone calls. Overall the customers are not in any position of power without a forced recall.

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