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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#121

Post by nextlevelwizard »

saiya-jin wrote: post #109
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Being able to look after your offspring is great! This is a big no and main reason why I am against WFH. Here in Finland we have ample maternity leave and pretty good paternity leave as well, so why in the fuck are we allowing these new fathers to "work" from home while looking after the kid? The mother has maternity leave precisely so she can take care of the kid(s), she should be doing it for the 8 hours you are w…

Nope. You realize that kids need and beg for endless amount of attention from parents long after maternity/paternity leave ends, even in Finland. Its clear from your post you don't have much experience with being around small kids for longer time. Unless you plan to subsidize everybody's maternity leave till kids are teens, then leave is just bare minimum, even at 1 year, heck even at 3 as its back home. In fact, fir…

>Its clear from your post you don't have much experience with being around small kids for longer time.

Yep, that is literally what day care is for. This is how things have been done for decades. How are things all of a sudden any different - other than now the father is working from home and the mother can offload onto him and eat into his work time.

As with everything having kids requires sacrifices, meaning you lose your free time since you have to build and take care of your family, but then trying to now shift that on the employer is unreasonable.

>a lot of lonely

Again (not-so) subtle attack on my person. Of course I must be lonely (and probably a loser) since I prefer to have the perks of working in an office.

>Most of what you describe is just matter of a bit of discipline

Aaand there comes the dismissing.

>heck get it delivered home if you are so lazy

I would if I could. No place delivers before 10 or 11. However this is due to the city I live in. I am sure in bigger expensive city I could get coffee delivered at 6, but not here. Also since again I've made the sacrifice with pay I don't want to be paying 10€+ every morning to get coffee delivered, I could afford it, but I am not so well off that I wouldn't notice it in my finances.

>you don't want to clear snow to go to gym (which is TBH ridiculous if you think about it).

More dismissal. Yeah, you can think it is ridiculous, but I think having kids is ridiculous so that argument doesn't hold much weight.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#122

Post by seanp2k2 »

HPsquared wrote: post #80
sharemywin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet if we don't want a massive population decline we need to figure out how to raise kids and have a decent standard of living. Even if there's only one parent in the picture.

I think it comes down to incentives. Traditionally the economic benefit of children was that they would basically work for you, including supporting you into old age. This made the enormous investment a lot more worthwhile. Also the childcare obligations were much less (a 12 year old could be pretty much self sufficient by working). With pensions, no child labour, etc, the trade-off is not like that any more in econo…

Who’s getting pensions these days? I doubt anyone under 50 right now will have much of a retirement to look forward to.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#123

Post by ryanjshaw »

dustedcodes wrote: post #81
radu_floricica wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking for children under a certain age is more or less a full time job. Trying to mix it with work is, well, simply a bad decision. Over that age, and if the kids themselves can manage it... sure, it's great. You're there for breaks and emergencies - much better than being absent for the whole day.

I disagree. I work from home as a new dad of a nearly 8 month old girl now. The first 3 months I took off work to be a full time dad, but since then I've returned back to a 4 day work week and when I work Monday to Thursday I am not distracted by my baby girl at all. I have a separate room as an office, if the door is closed then it means no interruptions. My wife is still on maternity leave so she is free to do the…

Parent was indeed slightly incorrect. Up until maybe 2-3yrs they are little angels. Then everything changes. I would take 8 hours at the office over 8 hours with a high energy 4 year old. It would be way less exhausting.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#124

Post by seanp2k2 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #98
dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

> 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from home provides) This x1000, it's not just getting rid of distractions by people walking by or talking... but especially how you sit. My back is shot, I prefer lying on a sofa or in one of these b…

Just fwiw, some offices like mine do have beanbags and couches, and I’ve had lots of great discussions and working sessions in them. Unless it’d be totally out of place (e.g. Telemarketing cube farm or something) try talking to bosses / facilities about making some space for that? A lot of more modern offices have a decent amount of lounge space and different types of working environments like lunch rooms, individual tables, tables and chairs off to the side, benches, lounge chairs, chaise lounges, outdoor cabanas (my personal fav), grassy spots under trees, etc etc.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#125

Post by nextlevelwizard »

dustedcodes wrote: post #94
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Being able to look after your offspring is great! This is a big no and main reason why I am against WFH. Here in Finland we have ample maternity leave and pretty good paternity leave as well, so why in the fuck are we allowing these new fathers to "work" from home while looking after the kid? The mother has maternity leave precisely so she can take care of the kid(s), she should be doing it for the 8 hours you are w…

> cheap & healthy food prepared by someone else For me it's the opposite. Food outside of home means it's low quality food in comparison to the fresh organic produce which we buy locally and my wife and myself have had freshly cooked food all our lives so we really value fresh home made delicious food rather than having a burger or some other rubbish outside. - good coffee prepared by someone else / machine Again, th…

My office used to have fresh food made locally. I also don't want to frequent restaurants. As I said in my comment, but I guess we aren't reading comments fully anymore.

I am not a coffee snob and this is by intention. I like the caffeine - it is a wonderful drug and I can enjoy a well made cup of coffee, but I want to be able to have coffee anywhere I feel the need without having to look for something specific or being disappointed in the taste. Filter is fine. Instant is fine. I do have couple coffee bean grinders and couple fancier brewers, but it is a rare day I care to use them.

Again depends where you live. Where I live when I go to the gym between 5 and 6 there are usually no one there. I can lift in peace. I would love to have room for my own gym, but I would have to move. And if it wasn't for the snow I probably would go to the gym and I probably will start when the snow melts.

I bought my apartment before Covid, so I didn't prioritize having home office since back then only reason to have remote day was if I had a package coming in that was too large to bring home from office. So I'm working from my living room which is not ideal. Yes, I could make the sacrifice and take a loan, put my current apartment up for sale and move to something that has dedicated office, but I don't see the point. My office is being renovated and by the end of the year (assuming the schedule holds) I can start going to the office again every day.

I think this is where we have a language break down. By shirt I mean just like a t-shirt or hoodie. The confusion was mine since I did change "pants" to "trousers", but didn't think far enough.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#126

Post by paulryanrogers »

anchochilis wrote: post #97
dustedcodes wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I work from home as a new dad of a nearly 8 month old girl now. The first 3 months I took off work to be a full time dad, but since then I've returned back to a 4 day work week and when I work Monday to Thursday I am not distracted by my baby girl at all. I have a separate room as an office, if the door is closed then it means no interruptions. My wife is still on maternity leave so she is free to do the…

The key point is that someone else is watching the baby while you work. WFH is indeed wonderful for parents and families, but if you try to do it without childcare, you're not going to be working much.

It's kind of absurd to conflate lockdown WFH of the COVID era with regular WFH. Folks who think they can do childcare and WFH are quickly disabused of the notion, unless they happen to have the most independent of children.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#128

Post by jxidjhdhdhdhfhf »

anchochilis wrote: post #97
dustedcodes wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I work from home as a new dad of a nearly 8 month old girl now. The first 3 months I took off work to be a full time dad, but since then I've returned back to a 4 day work week and when I work Monday to Thursday I am not distracted by my baby girl at all. I have a separate room as an office, if the door is closed then it means no interruptions. My wife is still on maternity leave so she is free to do the…

The key point is that someone else is watching the baby while you work. WFH is indeed wonderful for parents and families, but if you try to do it without childcare, you're not going to be working much.

If you don't have childcare, you can't go to the office at all though.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#129

Post by mschuster91 »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #124
mschuster91 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from home provides) This x1000, it's not just getting rid of distractions by people walking by or talking... but especially how you sit. My back is shot, I prefer lying on a sofa or in one of these b…

Just fwiw, some offices like mine do have beanbags and couches, and I’ve had lots of great discussions and working sessions in them. Unless it’d be totally out of place (e.g. Telemarketing cube farm or something) try talking to bosses / facilities about making some space for that? A lot of more modern offices have a decent amount of lounge space and different types of working environments like lunch rooms, individual…

My office is in an old (1900ish) former city administration building. No space there, sadly.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#130

Post by zdyn5 »

dustedcodes wrote: post #81
radu_floricica wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking for children under a certain age is more or less a full time job. Trying to mix it with work is, well, simply a bad decision. Over that age, and if the kids themselves can manage it... sure, it's great. You're there for breaks and emergencies - much better than being absent for the whole day.

I disagree. I work from home as a new dad of a nearly 8 month old girl now. The first 3 months I took off work to be a full time dad, but since then I've returned back to a 4 day work week and when I work Monday to Thursday I am not distracted by my baby girl at all. I have a separate room as an office, if the door is closed then it means no interruptions. My wife is still on maternity leave so she is free to do the…

Sorry to say but sweet docile 8 month old girl is EZ mode and very different from a 3 year old boy running around banging on your office door demanding your attention every 20 minutes.

Source: have 3 yo boy and 7 mo girl, even with stay at home mom to help. The girl’s presence is almost unnoticeable during work hours unless I want to see her, it’s fully under my control. The boy is a totally different story. Wouldn’t get anything done if I didn’t go to the office.

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