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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#91

Post by yurishimo »

dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

Honestly, I feel very similarly, but I have an external factor as well.

Last year I moved to The Netherlands from Dallas, TX, USA. My entire world has totally changed. Part of that move was a new job for a company local to my area.

Before I moved, I worked remotely in the US for about 6 years. Well before the pandemic, etc etc. My favorite part of my job being a remote worker was getting together with people once or twice a year for in person retreats or company outings visiting clients.

My commute these days is longer; 30km or about 18 miles and takes about 30 minutes. I own a car, which is ironic considering I moved to a country with the worlds best bicycle infrastructure. For better or worse, work requires our team to come to the office 2 days a week.

But because of that commute, I gain so much. I have structured time to listen to the radio and practice my foreign language listening skills. I am surrounded by people who speak a different language than me unless we're specifically collaborating on work topics (then we speak English). I can observe the habits and idiosyncrasies of this new culture, and for the moment, I really am enjoying it.

Would I have a different opinion if I was commuting 5 days a week? Almost certainly. But once or twice a week is totally manageable for me and my life now.

The takeaway I think is, do what works for you. If you like the office, that's great! If your company doesn't have dedicated offices, ask your boss for a dedicated coworking space. If you like laying on your couch, laptop on your chest, typing away all day, more power to you too.

The key is to not put down others for their preferences, and support your colleagues in being the happiest version of themselves at work, wherever that happens to be.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#92

Post by mnd999 »

raincole wrote: post #33
dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

It's not that "office" is inherently bad. Commute time and staggering living cost in some cities are inherently bad.

Sure, but living in cities has its benefits besides being closer to work and depending on what you want that’s worth the pain. I tend to go into the office two or three days a week and I’ll generally have an evening activity in town on one or two days, like drinks or theatre or a meet up or something. If you’re doing it for fun as well as work the commute isn’t so bad and the trains are quiet later in the evening.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#93

Post by mnd999 »

Gigachad wrote: post #37
raincole wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that "office" is inherently bad. Commute time and staggering living cost in some cities are inherently bad.

The real revelation for me is just how mentally taxing driving is. I _hated_ going to the office and felt like shit every weekday. Then I moved to an inner city apartment and walked to work and I loved the office and the walk in. I’ve been remote working for 2 years now as it let met access better jobs in another city but it’s really starting to get to me so I’m moving to that city so I can get back to the office.

Decent public transportation is the solution here, we are fortune to have that in London.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#94

Post by dustedcodes »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #83
dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

>Being able to look after your offspring is great! This is a big no and main reason why I am against WFH. Here in Finland we have ample maternity leave and pretty good paternity leave as well, so why in the fuck are we allowing these new fathers to "work" from home while looking after the kid? The mother has maternity leave precisely so she can take care of the kid(s), she should be doing it for the 8 hours you are w…

> cheap & healthy food prepared by someone else

For me it's the opposite. Food outside of home means it's low quality food in comparison to the fresh organic produce which we buy locally and my wife and myself have had freshly cooked food all our lives so we really value fresh home made delicious food rather than having a burger or some other rubbish outside.

- good coffee prepared by someone else / machine

Again, the complete opposite for me. The first kitchen appliance which we bought when we moved into our house was a Sage Oracle coffee machine, one of the best bean to cup machines and we buy an organic blend of well sourced beans from a local shop in South West London. Everyone who visits us and drinks our coffee says that they never had such a good cup of coffee before.

- easy to go to the gym on my way to the office

In the city the gyms are crammed, overcrowded and small and they have limited facilities. Here where I live we have a massive David Lloyd just a 6 minute drive away, it's a massive complex with indoor/outdoor tennis courts, gym floor, 20+ studios for classes, indoor and outdoor swimming pools, a creche for children, a bar and restaurant and the most amazing spa. Going to my local gym after work is a million times better than those shitty crammed basement bullshit gyms in the city where all the offies are.

- nice separation of work and "civilian" life, I can just leave work at the office when I leave

I love my work. We have an office room in our house. If I'm inside this room with closed doors I'm in deep work mode. If outside I'm in home mood. Clean separation enough, also the best separation is to finish work, put on my sports gear and go hit the tennis courts or go with my family for a walk outside or something. I don't need to sit on an overcrowded stuffy tube full of sick overly tired miserable looking people in order for my brain to switch into home mode.

- a reason to put on trousers and a clean shirt in the morning

Never wore shirt to work, even when I went into the office. I'm thankful for that.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#95

Post by tarsinge »

dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

> My meandering point is that: everyone has different life situations

Yes, so it's not about preferences, it's not about the pros and cons, it's about not forcing people for needless suffering. Forcing people who want or need (professionally or personally) to work with other people at home is absurd, and forcing people who provide better work at home (for jobs were it makes no difference to be in office) to commute and work in an open space just to reassure bosses is as absurd.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#96

Post by izacus »

dt3ft wrote: post #2

Why would I commute (and in doing so lose 2 hours of my time per day)? Focusing in the office is next to impossible, the equipment is sub-par (I have a 3-monitor setup at home)? What is it about software engineering that requires physical presence? Currently we meet once a week in the office and I get almost no work done that day, and I’m not the only one.

Doing a mental/empathy exercise to think about all the reasons why people would want to do that is an important practice for your career growth and building great software products for people that aren't like you.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#97

Post by anchochilis »

dustedcodes wrote: post #81
radu_floricica wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking for children under a certain age is more or less a full time job. Trying to mix it with work is, well, simply a bad decision. Over that age, and if the kids themselves can manage it... sure, it's great. You're there for breaks and emergencies - much better than being absent for the whole day.

I disagree. I work from home as a new dad of a nearly 8 month old girl now. The first 3 months I took off work to be a full time dad, but since then I've returned back to a 4 day work week and when I work Monday to Thursday I am not distracted by my baby girl at all. I have a separate room as an office, if the door is closed then it means no interruptions. My wife is still on maternity leave so she is free to do the…

The key point is that someone else is watching the baby while you work.

WFH is indeed wonderful for parents and families, but if you try to do it without childcare, you're not going to be working much.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#98

Post by mschuster91 »

dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

> 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from home provides)

This x1000, it's not just getting rid of distractions by people walking by or talking... but especially how you sit. My back is shot, I prefer lying on a sofa or in one of these bean bags. No way to do that in the office.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#99

Post by whateveracct »

nicbou wrote: post #79
zmmmmm wrote: post #77

while people will all point out the benefits of working together in the office, when you weigh it against the blindingly obvious downsides: - enormous time lost to commutes - massive lost flexibility - restriction of your workforce to the tiny 20 mile radius of people willing / able to physically travel to your office instead of literally the entire world (or at least, those in your time zone who speak your language)…

I'd rephrase "chit chat at the water cooler" as "not being alone in a room for most of the day". Others are happy to spend time away from their home, which might be unsuitable for productive work. I am quite fine with this arrangement, but it's a bit more charitable to those who aren't.

> not being alone in a room for most of the day

I think differences in people's personal lives silently drive this conversation.

I've worked remote before covid (better part of a decade now). I've never felt alone .. but I'm married. So I spend my remote work time with my wife instead of being apart from her in an office. That drives my love of remote work. But someone without that may frame it as "being alone all day."

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