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Average Is Over

nytimes.com

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Re: Average Is Over

#51

Post by wladimir »

mindcrime wrote: post #43
wavephorm wrote: post #15

Welcome to Peak Capitalism. This is the peak of our current socio-economic system, and I'm fairly certain that everyone in the White House is now well-aware and convinced of what's likely going to happen over the course of the next 10 years. I hope they're preparing for it right now. I believe the coming collapse of the capitalistic-democractic system is imminent, and America needs to very seriously start planning fo…

I still haven't seen any convincing argument that socialism is going to result in anything besides "trickle up poverty." How that's supposed to be better than what we have now remains a mystery to me. I'm also unconvinced that the basic premise of this entire discussion (that technology is going to completely obviate the need for human labor) is sound. Alarmists have been crying this out since at least the Luddites[1…

Alarmists have been crying this out since at least the Luddites[1] and it hasn't come true yet

It hasn't come true yet. That doesn't prove or disprove anything. Either they were far ahead of their time, or it will never happen. That's not sure yet, and that depends on what people do today.

Re: Average Is Over

#52

Post by invalidOrTaken »

One question I've had for...a while now.

If

  a) corporate profits are up                         

  b) hiring isn't happening, or is seeing a skills mismatch
then where exactly are all these profits going? If they're going to capital goods for the company, that just moves the question on down the line. If they're going to shareholders, then what are those shareholders buying? And if it's just sitting in the bank, where is the bank lending it out?

Re: Average Is Over

#53

Post by MengYuanLong »

The majority of comments seem to praise the programming/IT community or question the state of our government/economic system but I have a different question.

What future skill set should people be retooling to have? What can our economy use more of?

Re: Average Is Over

#54

Post by spinchange »

I can't believe those Presto touchscreens at restaurants are $100 per month. I love gadgets and technology, but much prefer dealing with a server and think most people do. My kids like the games and nag incessantly to play the "pay" ones, but I hardly think this is the end of waitresses and waiters. (I hope)

Re: Average Is Over

#55

Post by phatbyte »

" Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. " - This is true in the actual times, since China (no matter how they want you to forget it) is living under very harsh communist regime, but that will change when chinese workers start demanding better working conditions, more time for family, better salaries, etc..as far as I know, it's China who's living in a bubble.

Re: Average Is Over

#56

Post by sskates »

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #52

One question I've had for...a while now. If a) corporate profits are up b) hiring isn't happening, or is seeing a skills mismatch then where exactly are all these profits going? If they're going to capital goods for the company, that just moves the question on down the line. If they're going to shareholders, then what are those shareholders buying? And if it's just sitting in the bank, where is the bank lending it ou…

A lot of companies are just sitting on the cash (most likely in a bank account). Interest rates are very low right now, so there's not much incentive to lend the money out.

Re: Average Is Over

#57

Post by Jach »

mtts wrote: post #45
hammerdr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of a "everything is automated, only a small portion of people are needed to produce essentials and even advance" society, would we just be better off with a system that relied on the altruism of the few to make the lives of everyone better and everyone else could just exist? That sort of society has a slew of issues that could be better explored in futurist science fiction (things such as psychologic issu…

I think you're already seeing societies like this in North Western Europe: large numbers of unproductive, uneducated and essentially useless people are kept fed, housed and clothed as that is the humane thing to do, but their lives are absolutely meaningless and empty (mostly - there are of course people who can make it work for themselves). Occasionally they revolt, like they did last summer in England, but even the…

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the direction humanity takes in the end (barring significant intelligence enhancements). The door is always open to work at bettering yourself and humanity, but if you don't want to right now that's fine too because the cost to keep you alive and happy will become so minuscule and because of the various moral arguments.

I've been telling people "Even if the holodeck gets invented and its fantasy worlds are more psychologically pleasing than this one, I still want to get off this rock for real." I may be underestimating the powers of wireheading but if it's not forced on everyone I think a lot of people will keep it to a relative minimum like entertainment is already.

My take on the modern job problem is that it's about reaching the point of super cheap happy-human care which might include a possible 90%+ unemployment rate, while avoiding or making as quick as possible the messy middle-area we've entered where unemployment is rising and there aren't enough people capable/willing to support the unproductive masses.

Re: Average Is Over

#58

Post by yummyfajitas »

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #52

One question I've had for...a while now. If a) corporate profits are up b) hiring isn't happening, or is seeing a skills mismatch then where exactly are all these profits going? If they're going to capital goods for the company, that just moves the question on down the line. If they're going to shareholders, then what are those shareholders buying? And if it's just sitting in the bank, where is the bank lending it ou…

Many of the profits were earned overseas, and are being left there. If they bring the profits home to the US, they will be taxed. Essentially, the US is levying a tax on (certain) foreign investment, specifically investment by Google Ireland in Google USA.

Additionally, most of the private sector is deleveraging and building up cash reserves to use in lieu of debt financing.

Re: Average Is Over

#59

Post by robryan »

sskates wrote: post #56
invalidOrTaken wrote: post #52

One question I've had for...a while now. If a) corporate profits are up b) hiring isn't happening, or is seeing a skills mismatch then where exactly are all these profits going? If they're going to capital goods for the company, that just moves the question on down the line. If they're going to shareholders, then what are those shareholders buying? And if it's just sitting in the bank, where is the bank lending it ou…

A lot of companies are just sitting on the cash (most likely in a bank account). Interest rates are very low right now, so there's not much incentive to lend the money out.

The bank would be lending it out though.

Re: Average Is Over

#60

Post by UK-Al05 »

mtts wrote: post #18

Ridiculous. The solution to average people becoming less relevant in the economy (which I don't dispute, btw) can of course never be to make everyone above average as that is by definition impossible. It's a feel good message for average folk that papers over the truth, which is that average folk that used to make a decent living doing average work will become poor. All of them, eventually. How poor exactly? Well, yo…

By above average he means specialised skills in a specific talent or skill. Thus being above average in that specific talent or skill; however below average in everything else. Division of labour.
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