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WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

theguardian.com

31–40 of 173 posts

Re: WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

#31
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I know here (UK) uses WhatsApp as their default communication tool. I have a few friends using Signal or Telegram, but I'd say WhatsApp is by and large the default, at least for my social circle.

It's relatively easy for people to switch, compared to other social networks.

[deleted]

Re: WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you don't know the meaning of the term "end-to-end encryption". Obviously the application itself (and the phone) can see the text you put into it, because it has to display that text. "End-to-end encrypted" means "from the moment the text leaves the phone, to the moment the text arrives at the recipient's phone, the text is encrypted such that no intermediate party can read it". You must of course trust or…

That is all good and clear, but its not open source and the government would not need have a back door, they can just request the received messages, or am I wrong here?

They can certainly get a warrant to seize and search a phone, yes. They can also get a warrant to seize the contents of the WhatsApp server, for what little good it will do them (assuming we believe they are in fact end-to-end encrypting the messages effectively).

Re: WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

#33
Dark patterns trick WhatsApp users to enable backups to Google and Apple. If you have them disabled odds are good the other side got tricked into them. Even if your backups are encrypted, it's using only a 64bit key. That means Five Eyes have near real-time access to your "encrypted" messages. Hell, I have to decline backups every time I use WhatsApp on my iPhone, yet after a phone reset all my messages were still there. They were gone in Signal for example. Is UK making a stink about it to lure bad people into a false sense of security? We all know why large US tech companies bought Skype (twice) back in the day. It's naive to think WhatsApp was bought for a different purpose.

Re: WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It allows criminals to do bad things, common examples would be CP or terrorism.

Which always makes me wonder, what is the extend of the child pornography problem? How big is the nail compared to the proposed hammer? If I had to guess, I would guess this is hammer affecting 80+ % of the population to go after a group constituting a fraction of a percent of the population.

That's a very good question: how to quantify child suffering to one of the worst crimes imaginable? I am not saying I am for or against. I am just trying to point how really difficult is to quantify both sides of the equation.

Re: WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

#37
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say that 98% of users are outside the UK (and those users very likely won't want reduced encryption), so whatsapp would probably just exit the UK.

I know in some non-US countries, WhatsApp is the default way of communicating (like SMS is in the US). Is that true in the UK? That could put significant pressure on the government

I live in the bay area in the US and whatsapp is the default way of communicating here as well

Re: WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

#38
post #26

Isn't this a red herrring? I thought the law didn't require the removal of E2E encryption, but rather mandated the addition of a back door that submits some kind of meta data summary to a third party service?

Is that better? The effect is the same.

Re: WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you happen to have links to some good reading material on this? People could -eg.- show it to their representatives.

I'm probably not best equipped since I wasn't living in France at the time, but there's a quick summary at the time here: https://www.theregister.com/1999/01/15/france_to_end_severe_...

Merci beaucoup!

Re: WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief

#40

Call me sceptic, but does not whatsapp see what you are typing when you are creating messages? They need to log the keydown event somehow, right? And the predictive text spits out what it thinks you want to type. And backups are possible even if you never had one before. This is so very dodgy to me. Maybe its e2e from the moment you submit until it arrives at the desired destination. Which brings me to the next issue…

If it ain't open-source, you can't trust it. Signal or GTFO.

I trust matrix over signal. signal has a shitcoin and the new ceo is sketch.
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