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Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

dfpi.ca.gov

61–70 of 87 posts

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silvergate’s assets are real boring normal stuff Their safe, boring assets weren't safe and boring enough. Why can't there be a bank like this that just keeps your cash as cash?

Not sure why people are upset with this comment. Many banks do put customer funds into T-Bills, or park it with the Fed at the fed funds rate. Both of which are 0 risk and effectively instantly redeemable. And this is still highly profitable right now, if you offer customers yields below fed funds rate (~5%), the money on the spread is risk free. Pretty much every crypto adjacent firm has decided to take excessive ri…

Some are probably upset with it because they want Silvergate's liqudiation to be caused by crypto, and not super-safe US Treasurys. Turns out Silvergate's bitcoin loans are just fine, and it was the Treasurys that fucked them up.

Others are probably upset with it because Silvergate had the option to hold cash as cash, or cash as one-month T-bills, and if they had done that, they wouldn't have had to liquidate.

But instead they locked it up in much longer dated bonds to grab a little extra yield, and got burned when interest rates increased.

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without crypto I wouldn't be able to work as a software engineer for international companies (unless I were to work for free). Maybe you should dig a bit deeper before making such comments

Yet, what crypto was supposed to do already exists in a regulated environment. I know lots of software engineers and companies that use Wise to get paid / pay employees and contractors internationally with no issues there at all. So crypto is still not needed here at all.

You don't know enough then. If I were to use Wise I would be getting half salary due to my country "regulations", not even mentioning that I wouldn't be getting dollars or the fact that it would be nearly impossible due to bureaucracy.

Edit: forgot to mention that around a month ago Wise decided to no longer support my local currency, so there's also that.

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TLTs value went down because yields went up. This is by design, anyone who invested in TLT at zero rates should have known the yields to price function. Honestly i dont see whats to hide here in reporting ?? Can you explain what am i missing here ?

Many financial institutions are required by law to hold UST, some of which have suffered declines comparable to TLT. This was in part a result of regulations post-GFC. I'm surprised there hasn't been more reporting about this. Maybe everything's fine and there's nothing to see here.

If a bank classifies their long-duration Treasurys as held-to-maturity, they don’t need to mark the fluctuating value of the bond principal to market. [0]

Also, most other banks aren’t overly concentrated in one area that could collapse and force a bunch of customer withdrawals like Silvergate was (in cryptocurrency)

If there was a problem in banking bond holdings, it likely would’ve surfaced by now with the massive interest rate changes.

[0] https://viewpoint.pwc.com/dt/us/en/pwc/accounting_guides/loa...

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#64
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without crypto I wouldn't be able to work as a software engineer for international companies (unless I were to work for free). Maybe you should dig a bit deeper before making such comments

Taxes are still due even if you aren’t getting paid in USD. I don’t understand how crypto is legitimately solving a problem for you.

Look up the current situation in Argentina, in depth and using local sources (not some random US newspaper) like r/argentina and r/merval.

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That TLT story is being severely under-reported.

Under-reported by who? Virtually everyone I know has been watching the Fed / FFR and the rate-hike news because it affects things like long-term treasuries very significantly. The FFR going from 0% to 4.5% over the last year is probably the biggest, most important (and definitely well reported) piece of news... and constantly makes front-page material on most financial newspapers I've been reading. The idea that this…

I should have phrased it differently. The potentially large unrealized capital losses on UST sitting on bank balance sheets has been under-reported. Banks are both required to hold UST and not always required to mark-to-market. This interest rate move has been massive relatively speaking, leaving some number of banks in a terrible capital position, just waiting for a disturbance (like the FTX implosion) to trigger run-like conditions.

This story sketches a problem that hopefully doesn't start to gather steam:

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/04/why-some-banks-are-heading-...

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, what crypto was supposed to do already exists in a regulated environment. I know lots of software engineers and companies that use Wise to get paid / pay employees and contractors internationally with no issues there at all. So crypto is still not needed here at all.

You don't know enough then. If I were to use Wise I would be getting half salary due to my country "regulations", not even mentioning that I wouldn't be getting dollars or the fact that it would be nearly impossible due to bureaucracy. Edit: forgot to mention that around a month ago Wise decided to no longer support my local currency, so there's also that.

I've just went onto Wise and they support Argentina Pesos and lots more, seems to be working all good, you realise that Wise isn't the only company that works in Argentina?

Payoneer also works in Argentina and other countries and pays employees / contractors internationally.

You really don't need crypto at all, since international payments is pretty a solved problem already and Wise, Payoneer etc is much safer to use.

Rather than the immensely risky, speculative, dangerous and volatile crypto sector which doesn't solve anything new at all.

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes about 5 minutes playing with ChatGPT to realize it has real time saving value, seems like author hasn't really tried to use it in their work. While I agree there is a hype bubble forming, I disagree with the premise that it only produces garbage.

The obvious thing is that we'll finally get voice assistants that can do more than pre-programmed tasks. Right now I can basically ask my home assistant "what's the time/weather" and "play some music". Anything else returns "i don't understand". I can see ChatGPT has huge potential here to give at least somewhat sane voice assistant responses.

That's not because voice recognition doesnt work. It's been working quite well for 15 years now. Just ask the Deaf community.

The issue is even if the error rate is 1 in 100 and you scale that up to a billion users supporting thousands of use cases, you then need to maintain a large army of people to manually handle those errors.

Its a huge cost to even the largest firms. Very similar to what Facebook/Twitter/Youtube end up doing to handle content moderation. The faster systems scale the faster you get swamped with bugs you don't have bandwidth to fix. The consequences begin to multiply. Your basic Jurassic Park story plays out.

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#68
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious thing is that we'll finally get voice assistants that can do more than pre-programmed tasks. Right now I can basically ask my home assistant "what's the time/weather" and "play some music". Anything else returns "i don't understand". I can see ChatGPT has huge potential here to give at least somewhat sane voice assistant responses.

That's not because voice recognition doesnt work. It's been working quite well for 15 years now. Just ask the Deaf community. The issue is even if the error rate is 1 in 100 and you scale that up to a billion users supporting thousands of use cases, you then need to maintain a large army of people to manually handle those errors. Its a huge cost to even the largest firms. Very similar to what Facebook/Twitter/Youtube…

I mean it returns "i don't understand" in terms of context.

"Who played bond in that film Goldensomething?"

"I don't understand."

ChatGPT on the other hand returns "you're thinking of Goldeneye, where Bond was played by Pierce Brosnan"

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#69
post #7

Good context by Matt Levine a few days ago [1]. Basically Silvergate did a lot of business with crypto firms and got burned not by crypto speculation but just by holding long maturity safe assets when too many of their customers wanted to withdraw money on a short term basis. The result was falling below the line of being "well capitalised" as a bank. Bank regulation seems to be working here: there is no indication o…

I’m not sure what I think about this. It’s literally the first time I hear about Silvergate, I don’t have strong feelings about its continued existence or lack thereof, and my vision of the ideal situation in cryptocurrency is rooted in, like, 2010, but I’m reading this and...

> It’s just last week that US regulators warned banks about this [...]. It’s almost like they knew this was coming. The regulators did not quite say “therefore, don’t bank crypto exchanges”; in fact, they said the opposite [...]. But you got the idea.

If you stay silent most of the time, but say “we might be on a collision course with an iceberg” an hour before said iceberg comes along, your advice is very valuable (it might not be legibly valuable if it’s the first time you spoke up, but that’s not the concern here). If you say a lot of things all the time and then warn about the iceberg thing a minute before it happens, well, your advice is still better than nothing, but it’s not exactly an example of amazing foresight. And surely appending “captains have broad discretion over the course of their ship, as permitted by law or regulation” to the warning should discount its value further, at least a bit.

> A run on the bank happens in, like, It’s a Wonderful Life, but in the real world of big US banks, that particular dynamic [...] would be strange. [...] The story today is that Silvergate’s customers are withdrawing their money because they are worried about Silvergate [...]. But that's not why they were withdrawing their money in late 2022, when the trouble started. Then, they were withdrawing their money because crypto had collapsed [...]. The customers — crypto exchanges — were the problem, not Silvergate. [...]. I suppose this counts as contagion from the crypto crash to the real financial system [...] It is a narrow sort of contagion: That bank is pretty much the Bank of Crypto [...]. But it is certainly the sort of contagion that regulators will want to discourage [...].

Are the crypto exchanges the problem, though? This doesn’t read like a “cryptocurrency bad” story, it reads like a “being the Bank of Thing is bad” story. Cryptocurrency exchanges are a particularly bad value of Thing here, sure, but generally speaking, if you are the Bank of Thing and an overwhelming majority of your depositors are in the Thing business, then aren’t you essentially betting that Thing will not experience short-term volatility? Most of the time, the most relevant Thing is retail deposits, and as the article mentions, there’s a whole bunch of stuff instituted to smooth that out, but doesn’t this still apply for other, deposit-insurance-disadvantaged Things just as well?

In that view, it seems like, first, there should be indeed some opinions that, if you a running a bank, being an undiversified Bank of Thing on the depositor side is not a good idea, but also, second, that if you are a bank regulator and you regulate a Thing to a point where most but not all banks will refuse Thing businesses, you are very much accepting that those few remaining banks will be vulnerable.

Re: Silvergate Bank to begin voluntary liquidation

#70
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why people are upset with this comment. Many banks do put customer funds into T-Bills, or park it with the Fed at the fed funds rate. Both of which are 0 risk and effectively instantly redeemable. And this is still highly profitable right now, if you offer customers yields below fed funds rate (~5%), the money on the spread is risk free. Pretty much every crypto adjacent firm has decided to take excessive ri…

Some are probably upset with it because they want Silvergate's liqudiation to be caused by crypto, and not super-safe US Treasurys. Turns out Silvergate's bitcoin loans are just fine, and it was the Treasurys that fucked them up. Others are probably upset with it because Silvergate had the option to hold cash as cash, or cash as one-month T-bills, and if they had done that, they wouldn't have had to liquidate. But in…

Its presumably not that market rates increased that fucked them up, it's that they couldn't hold to maturity due to short term redemptions?
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