Google Groups has survived 22 years. How many self-hosted Discourse forums can say the same? If you're working on a new, small side-project like a new formal evaluator, are you going to want to spend your limited administrative bandwidth onboarding new contributors, responding to feature suggestions, talking to users, etc, or are you going to want to spend it trying to wrangle self-hosted forum administration and fig…
I wish Discourse never happened to the internet. What a regression from phpbb in so many respects when that's the thing they set out to improve.
Google Groups has been left to die
251–260 of 307 posts
Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I also lament what Google Groups has become, let's not rewrite history. By 2001, Dejanews had rebranded as a shopping comparison site, ran out of money, and was on the verge of shutting down. I don't remember many people being upset about Google stepping in to save the archive. And, in the early days, the signs were positive. Google actually cared about it at that point, and still had a good reputation. They ex…
> I don't remember many people being upset about Google stepping in I don't remember any former/active usenet user not being upset! Specifically because Deja had a full archive and robust search, and it was expected that the service would be Googlified into oblivion. Which happened, and even faster than the biggest doomsayers predicted.
DejaNews was going down, and Google with their buckets of money and great technology stepped in to save it. The initial expectation was that it'd just keep going, maybe with better integration of Usenet content with Google's search (which was a desirable thing, because so much history and detail was locked up in Usenet archives).
Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They're about 10 years in and he posts weekly changelogs and updates[1]. This isn't quite the brag you think it is. 10 years in, a product like this should be mostly fleshed out. On the linked page, I'm seeing design as well as technical changes mentioned. Also, they apparently only started working on translations recently.
Unfortunately, nothing lasts forever. Once you accept that, your perspective on 10 years may change. It's a long time. I challenge anyone to find discussions of this type from 100 years ago. Even if it was recorded (unlikely), did it survive after all of the participants died (unlikely)? Yes, we have 100 year old newspapers, but 100 year old discussions about underwater knitting.
Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#254Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
> first created in 1988, or 25 years ago 1988 was 35 years ago. I know, hard to believe... want to know something even more shocking?? People who are today 18 years old were born in 2005!
Yeah, typo. I meant to put 1998 - which is 25 years ago :)
Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#256Google Groups has survived 22 years. How many self-hosted Discourse forums can say the same? If you're working on a new, small side-project like a new formal evaluator, are you going to want to spend your limited administrative bandwidth onboarding new contributors, responding to feature suggestions, talking to users, etc, or are you going to want to spend it trying to wrangle self-hosted forum administration and fig…
Yahoo! Groups lasted 19 years. I co-admin a large group that had to find a new home when it was killed off. We went to a third party (groups.io) that accepts money in exchange for services. Will that have longevity? No idea, but it's at least preferable to trusting [insert big tech co]'s benevolence in keeping a service (that they seemingly don't care about) running.
>I co-admin a large group that had to find a new home when it was killed off. We went to a third party (groups.io) that accepts money in exchange for services.
Irony / wheel coming full circle, sort of:
Follow the links about M&A and founders in the links below.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Groups
->
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGroups
->
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONElist
->
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fletcher_(businessman)
->
->
Edit: okay, I didn't see this post by ryanwhitney before I first posted this.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35073095
I saw it only after.
Anyway, I knew about this history because I had a Yahoo! Groups account before it was that, i.e. was either eGroups or OneList, had been following Mark Fletcher, and had a groups.io account too, and had read his blog from long back.
Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#257Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Money is but one piece to ensure longevity. How many people even work at groups.io? What's their business continuity plans in case the founder or someone critical to the team dies, either due to old age or some sort of tragedy? Or becomes tired of running it? I'm not convinced it's preferable - people get old and tired of running a thing, or undergo some big life event that changes their priorities, and it's so tires…
In theory, a good _independent_ product with an active user base and a profitable model has a better than average chance of surviving (bus factor aside). Should the creator want to move on, someone should find the revenue stream attractive for some (even small) amount of money. I’d bet on baseline profitability to keep something alive over an outsized dream of future growth or potential synergies almost every time.
- Benjamin Brewster, https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/04/14/theory/
I'm a normal enough person and so I can get good at most things. But, it'll take a few tries to get good at it. Riding a bike, swimming, SATs, etc. The first time I rode a bike was a disaster. I hurt myself and fell off. But I got back on and built up my bike balancing skills and, well, now I can ride a bike without falling off.
Soft skills, like managing people, are just like that. Another skillset to build, with practice, just like in an RPG. But one thing that I've never had to do before is find a successor to own my business. It's just not a muscle I've ever used. Nor, I bet, have many other people. So when Mark Fletcher, who seems like he's held this since before the Yahoo times, decides he's had enough and wants to retire, is he going to have a well practiced "find a successor" muscle? or is he going to fall off the bike, disastrously? Because the other thing about riding a bike is that you can read all the books, listen to all the podcasts about it, but that all pales in comparison to actually riding a bike and practicing.
You know who does have experience with replacing people like they're cogs in a machine though and nominating successor? Giant machines aka Google in this context.
So to each their own. I'm going to bet on dogfood keeping the dog alive until the owner decides it doesn't love the dog called Google Groups any more. I'm still very sad about Google Reader being put out to pasture and more recently Stadia, but lovable the German Shepard of a dog that is Search won't stop getting love from it's owner Alphabet and neither will Keep.
Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#259Re: Google Groups has been left to die
#260Google Groups has survived 22 years. How many self-hosted Discourse forums can say the same? If you're working on a new, small side-project like a new formal evaluator, are you going to want to spend your limited administrative bandwidth onboarding new contributors, responding to feature suggestions, talking to users, etc, or are you going to want to spend it trying to wrangle self-hosted forum administration and fig…
Nah, I'd just use Discord. Code rendering: check. With different syntax highlighting per language even. Discussion: check. Forums: check. Photo galleries: check. Email notifications: check. Free: check.