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Google Groups has been left to die

ahelwer.ca

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Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#91

Post by mugsie »

scottfr wrote: post #44

Google Groups is heavily used within Google's ecosystem. Specifically it is: - a system for managing group-based access for Google Workspace users, e.g. share a Google Doc with a group to give all members access - a system for managing group-based access to Google Cloud Platform resources, e.g. share a BigQuery table with a Google Group to give all group members access to it. - a simple way for Google Workspace users…

Is that not "Google Groups for Workspaces" vs the newsgroups style public Google Groups this article is talking about?

Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#92

Post by syntheticnature »

checkcircuits wrote: post #56
jmclnx wrote: post #7

As someone who uses a "real" usenet site and reader, cannot wait until google groups is gone. One of the many issues is "comp.lang.c++" items from google is being sent to "comp.lang.c" because a change google made cannot handle the "++". The sad thing is we may loose the history that came from dejanews, I was one of the many people who were very upset when dejanews was bought by google. No surprise it morphed into th…

Finally someone with experience with usenet speaks up. I was pretty sad when Google acquired dejanews. I don't understand the author's concern but perhaps as a person who doesnt use Google Groups I don't understand the utility. If newsgroups were being used before whats stopping them from being used now? You can get a block account for $5 dollars with unlimited text access. The only thing different from long ago is t…

As someone who helps maintain some discussion mailing lists for a small non-profit, mailing lists "work" inasmuch as the email is accepted without error by hosts that, if you're lucky, just route it to spam.

Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#94

Post by syntheticnature »

waynesonfire wrote: post #83
magicalist wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always comes up in these threads and I always wonder if the commenters ever actually used Usenet. DejaNews isn't and never was Usenet, it was an archive, and Google Groups was just another Usenet client. Google Groups embrace-extend-extinguished Usenet as much as Gmail embrace-extend-extinguished email, and it got some cachet from having historical posts. You can still use Usenet as much as you could 20 years ag…

> Gmail embrace-extend-extinguished email I don't get your point; because google did that to e-mail. By using gmail or their paid product through g-suite, you get to be in the high QoS lane for e-mail delivery and get through their spam filter.

Ironically, in recent experience I've found Google Groups email routed to spam in Gmail, even with a Gmail-based sender and recipient.

Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#95

Post by mschuster91 »

dalbasal wrote: post #60

Looking back, it's quite surprising how stagnant, in some sense, the social media space has become. How centralised and how... lame. The big hitters really did pillage and burn. Now, between moderation norms becoming increasingly sensitive and the hard turn the web took away from open... It's hard to see any new form take off. That said, perhaps that means it's a perfect time. Groups/Usenet has its limitations. Featu…

> There must be a way. Why not have freedom in social media again?

Because any kind of social media, especially when it allows binary assets, will be abused by CSAM and piracy spreaders, by Holocaust deniers, by scammers, by spammers shilling dick enlargement pills, questionably "legal" drugs, questionable dietary supplements or all kinds of other stuff, by trolls bullying people right up to suicide "for the lulz", or as we're seeing in the wake of the Russian invasion by enemy propaganda.

> Moderation. Thats a stickier problem, but volunteer/community tends to be better... imo, than organisational moderation anyway.

Nope. Reddit's various cesspools, from lolicon to the_donald [1], show that any platform needs centralized moderation lest it became overrun by any of the groups listed above.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communiti...

Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#96

Post by altairprime »

Discussion forums are not a viable substitute for encoding solved problems into documentation. This will continue to be a new discovery each time a service shuts down. If a solution is not incorporated your effort’s formal documentation, then that solution will eventually be lost. Trying to shift the burden of documenting solutions from the project to the forum archives, whether hosted or outsourced, will eventually fail.

Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#97

Post by lelandfe »

gtirloni wrote: post #57
scottfr wrote: post #44

Google Groups is heavily used within Google's ecosystem. Specifically it is: - a system for managing group-based access for Google Workspace users, e.g. share a Google Doc with a group to give all members access - a system for managing group-based access to Google Cloud Platform resources, e.g. share a BigQuery table with a Google Group to give all group members access to it. - a simple way for Google Workspace users…

Yes, Google Groups is used for much more than emails. That's not the point of the article though.

I believe the subtext of that comment is that they feel it can't be "left to die" as Groups is too important in the ecosystem.

Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#98

Post by giantrobot »

bornfreddy wrote: post #40
haolez wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with USENET is spam. Moderation can be a burden. I suppose Google has some systems in place to mitigate this.

These days, it should be fairly easy to combat this. Everyone subscribes their messages. Client sw allows whitelisting the signatures. Whitelisted signatures can vouch for new signatures to be added. User can easily silence any signature. Messages that are hidden (because the signature is not whitelisted) are shown if a whitelisted message replies to them. I'm sure I didn't catch all the edge cases, but the main idea…

That's just bozo filters with a side of Web of Trust. It's been done. Bozo filters help with spam on the client side but don't do anything about spam on the server side. Servers still have to host everything because they can't know a priori what clients will want or not.

Not that your idea is necessarily bad but it breaks a lot of the utility of Usenet to have whitelist based filtering. I can't know ahead of time I like your posts and want to whitelist you. I also don't want to have to "know a guy" to get involved in a group (via Web of Trust).

Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#99

Post by mynameisvlad »

waynesonfire wrote: post #83
magicalist wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always comes up in these threads and I always wonder if the commenters ever actually used Usenet. DejaNews isn't and never was Usenet, it was an archive, and Google Groups was just another Usenet client. Google Groups embrace-extend-extinguished Usenet as much as Gmail embrace-extend-extinguished email, and it got some cachet from having historical posts. You can still use Usenet as much as you could 20 years ag…

> Gmail embrace-extend-extinguished email I don't get your point; because google did that to e-mail. By using gmail or their paid product through g-suite, you get to be in the high QoS lane for e-mail delivery and get through their spam filter.

Google Suite and Gmail are not the only ways to get through spam filters, and since when has latency been an issue? Do you know what "extinguish" means? Because that does not sound like "extinguish" and only barely scratches the surface of "extend".

If anything, Gmail's spam filters are absolute shit, judging by all the random spam that blasts through. It's a colander at this point.

Re: Google Groups has been left to die

#100

Post by foundart »

jmclnx wrote: post #7

As someone who uses a "real" usenet site and reader, cannot wait until google groups is gone. One of the many issues is "comp.lang.c++" items from google is being sent to "comp.lang.c" because a change google made cannot handle the "++". The sad thing is we may loose the history that came from dejanews, I was one of the many people who were very upset when dejanews was bought by google. No surprise it morphed into th…

ah, dejanews! So many times I plugged a build error message into their search and got the exact fix I needed. One search and problem solved. That probably wouldn't happen today even if they were still around, but it was a great experience to have had.
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