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Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

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Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#11

This line of thinking comes up often on HN but it ignores the central reason for governments to enact borders, a rather modern invention. Governments (at the behest of businesses) enforce borders so that labor cannot effectively organise. A border exists often for workers only, but is mostly a legal fiction that corporations can easily navigate. The most common example for the Americans reading this is NAFTA, which m…

> Governments (at the behest of businesses) enforce borders so that labor cannot effectively organise.

This is backwards, and I'm having trouble understanding how a more diverse, more transient population would find it easier to find common interests and unite. Suppose a factory unionizes - without borders, the owner will find it easier to import non-union workers. While moving a factory is challenging regardless of borders - it's a big, heavy thing, tied into local infrastructure and supply chains. It's even reflected in the rhetoric - "immigrants will do the jobs Americans won't".

It's also reflected empirically: Whole Foods' heat map says lower rates of racial diversity increase unionization risks - https://www.businessinsider.com/whole-foods-tracks-unionizat... (unpaywalled: http://archive.is/1khJw)

And in the strong Danish unions as far back as 1981 (https://mattbruenig.com/2021/09/20/when-mcdonalds-came-to-de...) when Denmark had only 3.02% of immigrants and their descendants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Denmark#Modern...)

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#12

This line of thinking comes up often on HN but it ignores the central reason for governments to enact borders, a rather modern invention. Governments (at the behest of businesses) enforce borders so that labor cannot effectively organise. A border exists often for workers only, but is mostly a legal fiction that corporations can easily navigate. The most common example for the Americans reading this is NAFTA, which m…

It is literally easier to move a person than an entire company across national borders. The process for both is at it's core the same - identify, verify and pay your taxes.

Yes people can and do move from Mexico to the Midwest all the time.

Why do you think Mexican laborers should get paid less for building your car then someone in Detroit? Part of the goal of NAFTA is to help stabilize the economy of Mexico and help longterm reduce the severe violence in parts of the country.

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#13

This line of thinking comes up often on HN but it ignores the central reason for governments to enact borders, a rather modern invention. Governments (at the behest of businesses) enforce borders so that labor cannot effectively organise. A border exists often for workers only, but is mostly a legal fiction that corporations can easily navigate. The most common example for the Americans reading this is NAFTA, which m…

For a migratory species it is literally inhuman to erect a border. Borders should be jurisdictional boundaries but should be permeable like the states in the US. The rest of the tribalism BS is just that.

Humans stopped being migratory about 12,000 years ago.

You probably don't want criminals to freely move into your country. You probably want a country that gets funded by taxes (both short term and long term).

No country in the world maintains open borders. Everytime there has been mass unorganized migration it has been a humanitarian disaster.

Platitudes only work on paper.

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#14
What are the best strategies to attract remote workers to a location?

* Utilities such as roads, water, high speed internet feel like table stakes now. Fiber internet is quickly spreading in rural areas, and I know people with septic tanks and a fiber line. Ten years ago Google Fiber was a major selling point for Kansas City.

* Governments have little control over climate, nearby geographic features, time zone, and a million other details. They can highlight their strengths in marketing campaigns.

* Cost of living only works for so long. We've seen areas in the last decades that have an influx of population and they usually see a corresponding increase in COL. There are approaches governments can take to slow down the growth of COL, but it seems inevitable.

* Taxes and local regulations might help attract some workers. Cannabis consumers might be more inclined to move somewhere they can gain access legally. High income workers might be attracted to places without state income tax. Women might migrate to a state that aligns with their abortion politics. Motorcyclists might prefer places with lane splitting.

* Large projects such as professional sports teams, well connected airports, large hospitals or ski lodges might play a role. Governments can attract these types of projects.

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#15
The article is valid in speaking specifically about US states competing, but otherwise I find the idea of treating governments, and countries, as mere economic platforms, that compete like a business would, disturbing.

They are representatives of their nations, and their duty is to their people, to whom they are guardians, of said people and their homelands. They should not be 'competing' for more residents just as families shouldn't compete to attract other's children.

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#16
I've owned houses in two cities in my life.

One called itself "A developer-friendly community" and the other "A healthy community"

The cities were organized around their taglines. One was 300 years old and focused on parks, trails, conservancy, and community centers. The other a younger city focused on growth and sprawl, tax abatements, and new businesses.

You should live where the government aligns with your phase of life and personal goals and be free to choose a new government later. Also, democracies can shift over time but generally it is easier to move somewhere new than to feel entitled to change a municpal culture simply because you got older.

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#17
There already are programs to attract residents that can boost a country’s tax base and add investments to economy. Media likes to call them “golden visas” and have derided them all the same. Sure there are issues like risks of ill-gotten funds getting laundered or criminals getting a new start without facing consequences of their crimes, but the same can be said about companies that are used as fronts for the same individuals. In the end, very large sums of money seem to open most doors, whether it is for individuals or companies.

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#18
post #2

This is pretty silly because governments do compete for residents. Having jobs is a major part of attracting new residents unless you are a (sub)tropical paradise. A business that doesn’t employ anyone or consume any inputs from other state businesses is not going to be a particularly interesting business to incentivize.

> Having jobs is a major part of attracting new residents unless you are a (sub)tropical paradise.

The theory is that for a whole range of lucrative jobs, “everywhere with Internet” can offer residents those jobs through remote work. So a neighborhood doesn’t need to compete to attract a big office building.

Personally I think that remains to be seen… we’re clearly still in the hangover from the pandemic. Society might look very different 10 years from now, and 10 years is a reasonable horizon for major civic planning. Most of the things that attracted Amazon to Crystal City were put in years or decades prior to their little competition.

> A business that doesn’t employ anyone or consume any inputs from other state businesses is not going to be a particularly interesting business to incentivize.

Exactly, that’s the whole point of the piece. If all the most lucrative jobs for your residents are remote, then maybe your civic planning will need to revolve around attracting people rather than incentivizing businesses.

Again, remains to be seen IMO. One big downside, from the perspective of local governments, is that taxes on individuals will have to go up. Quite a lot of local tax revenue passes through businesses, hidden in prices. You can’t hide on a W2 or property tax bill though.

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#19
post #11

This line of thinking comes up often on HN but it ignores the central reason for governments to enact borders, a rather modern invention. Governments (at the behest of businesses) enforce borders so that labor cannot effectively organise. A border exists often for workers only, but is mostly a legal fiction that corporations can easily navigate. The most common example for the Americans reading this is NAFTA, which m…

> Governments (at the behest of businesses) enforce borders so that labor cannot effectively organise. This is backwards, and I'm having trouble understanding how a more diverse, more transient population would find it easier to find common interests and unite. Suppose a factory unionizes - without borders, the owner will find it easier to import non-union workers. While moving a factory is challenging regardless of…

> easier to find common interests and unite

I think the idea is that there are common interests to be found, but borders artificially keep people apart, by segmenting up legal jurisdictions. For example, why Starbucks employees in Jersey City aren't all that different from Starbucks employees in New York City right across the river.

> Whole Foods' heat map says lower rates of racial diversity increase unionization risks

To what extent is this correlated with the economic security of their employees? Employees in wealthier areas (statistically correlated with whiter) might be more educated on average (which could be correlated with desire to unionize) and/or more likely to have a higher-income partner or family member (which means lower financial risk due to failure or being fired).

Re: Governments should compete for residents, not businesses

#20
post #14

What are the best strategies to attract remote workers to a location? * Utilities such as roads, water, high speed internet feel like table stakes now. Fiber internet is quickly spreading in rural areas, and I know people with septic tanks and a fiber line. Ten years ago Google Fiber was a major selling point for Kansas City. * Governments have little control over climate, nearby geographic features, time zone, and a…

> * Cost of living only works for so long. We've seen areas in the last decades that have an influx of population and they usually see a corresponding increase in COL. There are approaches governments can take to slow down the growth of COL, but it seems inevitable.

This IMO is the big issue though. Governments need to be aware of long-term population trends as stay ahead of them when it comes to planning. I consistently feel like local governments find themselves surprised at demographic changes that have been obvious for several years.

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