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Microsoft Designer

designer.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft Designer

#191

Post by toss1 »

anileated wrote: post #158
hiisukun wrote: post #48

I feel a deep sadness, a sympathy, or sense of loss for the countless artists who have toiled to produce beautiful works over the decades (centuries?), just for them to be approximated by a single click as a vector mashup in an AI generative search space. And without so much as a by your leave. I'm not saying it's logical to be against AI image generation, but definitely have a feeling that something has gone wrong h…

By way of OpenAI, Microsoft is attempting the biggest triple-E bait-and-switch in its history—this time not against open-source developers but anyone who was silly enough to share creative work in the open. Worst of all, the majority here seems to be hailing them for this. My take as to what exactly has gone wrong here is that it’s loss of attribution. I think this is quite intentional: given relevant metadata, the n…

Yes, it would be all good if they just tracked attribution and organized micro-payments and opt-out for the artists they are leveraging.

"Here's the list of artists contributing to your work not already in compensated libraries such as Getty. Your bill is $X.XX and 70% of your payment will go to these artists in this proportion [list]".

Instead MS is just pocketing it. It isn't like they lack the funds and hardware/software resources to also implement backtracing...

Perhaps what should be advocated is use this for idea generation then present it as part of the design brief to get local designers and artists to do a genuine creative work. And give them credit on the published result.

Re: Microsoft Designer

#192

Post by jodrellblank »

ChatGTP wrote: post #114
Iv wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has gone wrong is that AI researchers and futurologists have warned for decades that AIs replacing jobs was coming (though everybody was taken by surprise that artists would be first) and that we needed to change our paradigms about labor quickly. We should be embarrassing the weight of labor lifted from our shoulders and organize society so that it becomes desirable. Replaced professionals should be allowed to…

We should be embarrassing the weight of labor lifted from our shoulders and organize society so that it becomes desirable. Replaced professionals should be allowed to go into retirement directly and access some form of basic income. There should be incentives to automating your own work. Completely disagree with this view, especially when it comes to art. This is not advancing society, or art, or anything, it's a fre…

> "Nearly every single known artist is known because they developed a unique style, and worked to develop that style. They didn't just copy other peoples stuff and sell it. To make a machine that just rips off peoples styles and then you charge money for it is freaking lame as and I really hope they get sued hard for it."

Because when you drink Cherry Cola or eat Cherry Bakewell Tart, your first thought is to the chemist who worked hard to make the synthetic flavour, and then criticism to the company that just "copies other peoples stuff and sells it" hoping they get sued hard for it?

Re: Microsoft Designer

#193

Post by [deleted] »

ModernMech wrote: post #190
ChatGTP wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also not practical example of it's use, if I'm going to be using that tool to make a book about "baking ideas", I'd expect to have actual photos of the food I'm making in the book, is that too much to ask for? Maybe that's supposed to be showing "mock ups" or something?

I think they made it pretty clear this is a tool to confront the "blank canvas" problem, aka writer's block. For me, this has been the best use of tools like stable diffusion and chatgpt; when I'm trying to be creative, I just start typing in the text box, and then with a few prods from the AI the ideas start flowing.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Designer

#194

Post by adverbly »

SideQuark wrote: post #99
hiisukun wrote: post #48

I feel a deep sadness, a sympathy, or sense of loss for the countless artists who have toiled to produce beautiful works over the decades (centuries?), just for them to be approximated by a single click as a vector mashup in an AI generative search space. And without so much as a by your leave. I'm not saying it's logical to be against AI image generation, but definitely have a feeling that something has gone wrong h…

The same argument was made when player pianos came out, when records came out, when radio came out, when photography came out, when TV came out, yet there are likely more performers in every one of these categories than ever. Making content production and duplication cheaper enables more people to consume it, requiring more of it, and more people end up working on the new systems. I suspect these tools will be no dif…

Not the same argument.

There is a massive difference between "a smaller piece of the pie" and "cut out entirely".

Re: Microsoft Designer

#195

Post by disqard »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #70
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #17

Microsofts 3D video team always put all this effort into making the uis look good and fluid but it's all just fantasy, the disconnect between what the marketing team is saying it is and what the reality of their software is jarring.

You need to have a very good idea what the proposition is in order to interpret what the video is showing. The video looks like it's showing a video designer or a 3d interface designer. It's selling a concept in a way that's very well in-keeping with the spirit of the age, all chrome.

I love that you used "chrome" in that sense of the word (useless UI embellishments) -- it reminded me of "Burning Chrome".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Chrome

Re: Microsoft Designer

#196

Post by ModernMech »

toss1 wrote: post #191
anileated wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By way of OpenAI, Microsoft is attempting the biggest triple-E bait-and-switch in its history—this time not against open-source developers but anyone who was silly enough to share creative work in the open. Worst of all, the majority here seems to be hailing them for this. My take as to what exactly has gone wrong here is that it’s loss of attribution. I think this is quite intentional: given relevant metadata, the n…

Yes, it would be all good if they just tracked attribution and organized micro-payments and opt-out for the artists they are leveraging. "Here's the list of artists contributing to your work not already in compensated libraries such as Getty. Your bill is $X.XX and 70% of your payment will go to these artists in this proportion [list]". Instead MS is just pocketing it. It isn't like they lack the funds and hardware/s…

This is just the way of capitalism, and it's how the entire economy works. I mean, you're so concerned with the artists work being stolen, but what of the scientists? Yes, the art produced by Stable Diffusion isn't possible without the artists, but it's also not possible without the countless scientists who have worked over decades to get this technology to where it is. I didn't hear artists complaining when they were happily using technologies developed by people who were not compensated when their work was productized by corporations.

Where is their attribution? Should we expect Microsoft and OpenAI et al. to list the authors of the papers they used to work through the technical aspects of their product? Should all of the open source projects they leveraged be attributed and compensated? If we are going to ask Microsoft to share profits with artists, shouldn't we also ask them to share profits with scientists and open source devs?

Arguably, yes! But if so, then the focus on the poor artists being robbed is misplaced. If artists are being robbed by corporations, then they can get in line if they want a payout, because the rest of us are being robbed too. It's a much larger problem than just artists -- it's that corporations capture all of the downstream benefits of upstream content/science/technology developments, and then refuse to reinvest at a proportional rate back into the system that allowed them to profit so handsomely. This applies to the scientists and the artists.

So yes, be mad at what Microsoft is doing. But the solution isn't to get them to pay artists, that doesn't fix anything. If we want actual change, we need to fundamentally reimagine the relationship between corporations and the rest of us. If the only way to get there is for corporations to screw over more people until enough wake up, then so be it.

Re: Microsoft Designer

#197

Post by rchaud »

ModernMech wrote: post #196
toss1 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it would be all good if they just tracked attribution and organized micro-payments and opt-out for the artists they are leveraging. "Here's the list of artists contributing to your work not already in compensated libraries such as Getty. Your bill is $X.XX and 70% of your payment will go to these artists in this proportion [list]". Instead MS is just pocketing it. It isn't like they lack the funds and hardware/s…

This is just the way of capitalism, and it's how the entire economy works. I mean, you're so concerned with the artists work being stolen, but what of the scientists? Yes, the art produced by Stable Diffusion isn't possible without the artists, but it's also not possible without the countless scientists who have worked over decades to get this technology to where it is. I didn't hear artists complaining when they wer…

Why are you conflating scientific research (something that is paid), with art that was freely uploaded to social media sites and message boards?

Microsoft Designer is not spitting out composites of stolen research, it is creating composites of art that can't be matched back to the original.

> If artists are being robbed by corporations, then they can get in line if they want a payout, because the rest of us are being robbed too.

Perhaps you should disclose what AI is stealing from you. For me, nothing, because my career is in an area where I don't have to publicly share my work.

Re: Microsoft Designer

#198

Post by toss1 »

ModernMech wrote: post #196
toss1 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it would be all good if they just tracked attribution and organized micro-payments and opt-out for the artists they are leveraging. "Here's the list of artists contributing to your work not already in compensated libraries such as Getty. Your bill is $X.XX and 70% of your payment will go to these artists in this proportion [list]". Instead MS is just pocketing it. It isn't like they lack the funds and hardware/s…

This is just the way of capitalism, and it's how the entire economy works. I mean, you're so concerned with the artists work being stolen, but what of the scientists? Yes, the art produced by Stable Diffusion isn't possible without the artists, but it's also not possible without the countless scientists who have worked over decades to get this technology to where it is. I didn't hear artists complaining when they wer…

Scientists are generally paid, at least with public grant money or corporate sponsorship, or by working in corp labs.

Artists and writers generally earn their living by selling their works. If they are not paid for their works, they starve, which is why the stereotype of the "starving artist" exists.

This is like MS scanning all Open-Source code and generating PROPRIETARY results from that code.

Like the art, it was shared or published WITHOUT permission for commercial re-use.

Yet, here is Microsoft, hijacking and commercially re-using it. This is effectively stealing without permission or compensation. None of the artists consented for this type of re-use, especially packaged such that it would literally erase their ability to make a living.

MS has a very cool product here, except for this wholesale systematic theft.

Re: Microsoft Designer

#199

Post by ChatGTP »

jodrellblank wrote: post #192
ChatGTP wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should be embarrassing the weight of labor lifted from our shoulders and organize society so that it becomes desirable. Replaced professionals should be allowed to go into retirement directly and access some form of basic income. There should be incentives to automating your own work. Completely disagree with this view, especially when it comes to art. This is not advancing society, or art, or anything, it's a fre…

> " Nearly every single known artist is known because they developed a unique style, and worked to develop that style. They didn't just copy other peoples stuff and sell it. To make a machine that just rips off peoples styles and then you charge money for it is freaking lame as and I really hope they get sued hard for it. " Because when you drink Cherry Cola or eat Cherry Bakewell Tart, your first thought is to the c…

I don’t eat that crap.

Re: Microsoft Designer

#200

Post by Kwpolska »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #58
Kwpolska wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blog post you linked does not look very trustworthy. Many of these steps are generic Windows troubleshooting steps, with some clearly dumb ones thrown in. There are tons of sites that produce troubleshooting articles like this one for just about anything in Windows (although one of the steps is usually to use some product they're advertising). Googling for "windows 11 calculator crashing reddit" brings a total of…

It was indeed the second link I clicked after a summary search. Personally, I have not used the Windows Calculator app in a decade or so, but I blame Microsoft for other thousands of hours of pointless eye strain trying to fix and get work done through their applications. Still, I don't think one is unreasonable to expect that a calculator app should never crash after an update or be a nuisance if it's made by a 1.89…

As I said, I don’t think many people experienced Windows Calculator not working. Is it completely impossible? No, because computers are weird sometimes.

But all three articles are just spam. The writers of those articles definitely did not experience nor fix Calculator crashing, they just took their template “how to fix [modern Windows] $application” post and replaced $application with Calculator. You can also find similarly absurd posts for macOS [0], with the fixes being very generic and applicable to any app (force quit, safe mode, update the OS), workarounds (use Spotlight Search), and one user error fix (disable RPN mode). And, oh look, GNOME Calculator on Ubuntu can break as well [1] (but to be fair, that one’s caused by the ridiculous Snap obsession of Ubuntu).

[0]: https://www.guidingtech.com/best-fixes-for-calculator-app-no...

[1]: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1128243/calculator-wont-star...

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