Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the modern webapp experience is so miserable for the average person. I see this claim a lot and I'm curious what this is based on, can somebody drop some links to further reading?
Try selling React shit to corporates who have corporate malware infested Edge running on overloaded Citrix nodes or the average corporate android that was made about 3 years ago. We still get And we actually can debug our product!
React is holding me hostage
311–320 of 553 posts
Re: React is holding me hostage
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a beefy machine and fast internet. Yet, JIRA is annoyingly slow. Half the time, pages on my bank’s website take forever to load, or don’t load at all. I don’t have any numbers, just some anecdotal experience like the above. It is not just speed. The UI of many sites suck too. Amazon, GoDaddy, for example. Then there are ads. We don’t see ads in between content anymore. It is content within ads these days. I am…
Isn't Jira server-side rendered?
But JIRA main performance issues in my experience are caused by badly sized servers for the level of use.
Re: React is holding me hostage
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
Performance of frameworks is often irrelevant for products/applications. 1. Performance is very very rarely a contributor to a product success. Users prefer more features over more performant app all the time (both directly when asked and indirectly by what products they choose). 2. Rendering/client computation speed is rarely a contributor to real and perceived performance. It's almost always the async calls - how m…
> Performance is very very rarely a contributor to a product success. Users prefer more features over more performant app all the time (both directly when asked and indirectly by what products they choose). I close sites all the time when they fail to work quickly. I have aborted orders on sites midway through when the interaction became sluggish enough that I wasn't confident in the value of the product anymore. Thi…
Re: React is holding me hostage
#314I've been working on a React side project for a few months now and looking at my company's apps plus posts like this I think people just miss the point. Stuff like this: >Things get more complicated when you start using React Context and start signalling updates in a parent component. The render cascades. Maybe one component fetches some data, some component remounts, and you run your state update again, delayed by a…
>> I've been working on a React side project for a few months now and looking at my company's apps plus posts like this I think people just miss the point. The clue is in if everyone is missing the point but you, may be start with more introspection. :) I will give an example of a side project I am working on. The homepage has two sub components, one when the user is logged in, one when the user is logged out. Now, w…
Re: React is holding me hostage
#315But I think the criticism here is a bit sharper and more pointed than that. The author isn’t expecting Reach to do something for which it was never intended, I think. Instead, they’re saying that the abstractions (hooks in particular) that have evolved over time expose unhelpful interfaces that either conceals too much information, encourage poor patterns that lead to bugs, inefficiencies, etc.
In other words, the criticism isn’t of React’s explicit decision to offload responsibility outside the scope of outputting UI, but rather that it’s evolved to make handling of those responsibilities more challenging.
I think that’s a bit more serious than the former critics and worth at least considering. For my part, I’ve found little substantive advantage to hooks and do think they hide a lot of bugs by making implicit things that should probably be (and, once upon a time, were) more explicit.
Re: React is holding me hostage
#316At first, it felt to me that the broad stroke criticism of React expressed in this post was of the very familiar type that’s been around prob sky since it’s first release: that React should be more than what it’s ever intended to be, which is a library that outputs UI as a function of state (input via props). By offloading the responsibility for all the rest of it, e.g. managing state, remote fetching, etc. onto the…
Having to write optimized code usually makes dev ergonomics the first casualty.
Like the famous Haskell qsort. Every beginner sees a cute version that should never see the light of a production environment
Re: React is holding me hostage
#317As a more backend guy who does some frontend, the main thing I like about React over alternatives like Svelte, Vue and SolidJS is React Native. React is maybe not perfect for the web, but it’s very, very good, and it’s also quite good for mobile via React Native. The more purely web-focused libs/frameworks have far inferior (or no) mobile options, while other cross-platform frameworks, like Flutter, suck on the web.…
Re: React is holding me hostage
#318The problem each of them tried to solve, and continue to try to solve is purely lexical in the end. It's about writing things differently. Creating abstractions (terms) beyond what the underlying language/platform allows you to do.
And this is not a bad thing. The solution really is to create your own language so you can express the problem you are solving in the terms of the problem and not the underlying language/platform/hardware.
And then I sigh again... aah but if only Common Lisp and it's macros were the underlying platform.
Re: React is holding me hostage
#319POST/Redirect is beautiful. It’s fast. It’s simple. It’s low maintenance.
Re: React is holding me hostage
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
Although I agree with the sentiment of your post, #1 is blatantly wrong. Most of my successful work has been specifically outperforming the competition in a way that makes users choose our product. Performance is an orthogonal feature that improves all other features, and even changes what your clients can do with your system, as in making new workflows viable.
That’s highly dependent on the type of product / customers you have. If you’re running an online shop selling ice cream, going from 100ms to 2ms list sorting speed isn’t gonna get you more sales. I’d argue most online products are ice cream shops to some degree.