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Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

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Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#162
It's just super obvious by this point that none of the AI safety LARP is really about safety it's more about justifying why a technology that to hire the team to work on it requires that work to be published (Apple tried to do it without publishing and struggled to get the talent) but by publishing you lose part of your advantage so the only way to lock that advantage up is to make it so use of the models has to go through you and also trying to push for reasons for others to not have access to the tech required to train their own model.

If you disagree then why is OpenAI's safety committee talking about how you should need a government contract to buy an A100.

Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- "Paperclip maximizer". A corporation is a paperclip maximizer. If you take Milton Friedman seriously, that's what a corporation is supposed to do. As I point out occasionally, most of the ethical problems foreseen for AIs are known ethical problems with corporations. Corporations are not capable of having the "fast takeoff" which is an integral part of the doomer narrative here. Furthermore, a corporation being a…

What exactly is the argument that corporations are incapable of unbounded exponential growth contra a possible future AI? Is there just something magic about computers, or am I missing something obvious?

Corporations innovate through the work of human minds. Corporations improving doesn't cause the human minds to improve, so there's no recursive self-improvement. Corporations today still have the same kind of human brains trying to innovate them as they did in the past.

A human+ level AI would be able to understand and improve its own hardware and software in a way we can't with our own brains. As it improves itself, it will get compounding benefits from its own improvements.

Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The character's author-insert aspects are self-parody.

He's too fragile and prone to overcompensation for that, nice try. Of course he's going to back track after getting mercilessly mocked for it and then claim it was just a joke.

The first few chapters have a song scene parodying ghostbusters and a joke about the protagonist biting a teacher in a tantrum as a young kid. There's plenty of elements of crackfic parody in it.

Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in EA donate lots of money to causes that help people today. AI is just one of the more interesting subjects they often talk about. AI safety isn't about Roko's basilisk, or the idea that AI will take revenge on us for our moral choices. It's about the risk that an AI smarter than us will be made and built to pursue some goal without caring about our well-being.

> It's about the risk that an AI smarter than us It's also about the risk that AI is dumber than what we expect it to be and fails to properly solve the issue. A sufficiently smart AI should be able to understand our intentions and - assuming it is aligned with us - attempt to fulfill that purpose. Dumb "AI" will fail in ways that don't actually solve the task, or solve it only on the surface / do reward hacking.

>assuming it is aligned with us

If we don't figure out alignment, we can't make this assumption. This is the part that AI safety people are concerned with making reality.

Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#166
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

didn't really have much of a dog in this fight, but looking at that breakdown I wonder which oil company is bankrolling them. I know I'm jumping the gun just a little, but c'mon. An apocalypse list without climate?

Climate change is unlikely to kill everyone on earth. Other risks, such as an engineered pandemic, asteroid impact, or an AI apocalypse have the possibility of killing ~everyone. This is not saying that climate change is not a real issue.

Well, we're past the asteroids, at least. [1]

The AIpocalypse seems incredibly unlikely. I'm a lot more worried about the nukes, and even if we end up with robotic overlords, I'd bet they'll be a whole lot better at administration than meat -admins have proven.

I'm with you on engineered superviruses. Feasible, likely, and incredibly high impact.

What I kind of keep coming back to is the risk profile of all this stuff. That magic vector of likelihood * impact. Global warming is happening now. And it's real bad - worse than I think we give it credit for.

What I worry about is that we're the proverbial frog in the pot. Things get just slightly hotter each year, so we'll miss it when we actually boil.

1 https://www.google.com/search?q=double+asteroid+redirection+...

Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#167
post #126

Top level scientistis warning of this apocalypse. Sam Altman which was the CEO of the very site you are posting and the CEO of OpenAI has warned starkly that there is a probability that humanity will go extinct from AI in his latest interview. Have you seen it? You think he is somehow bluffing or is he part of the same cult?

What scientists?

A recent poll of published AI researchers showed a median estimate of a 5% chance AI causes human extinction, with half believing the chance is greater than 10%.

https://aiimpacts.org/2022-expert-survey-on-progress-in-ai/

A poll of NLP researchers showed 37% agreed that catastrophic outcomes of AI comparable to nuclear war were plausible.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2208.12852

Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#168
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been on this website before, but am I correct in understanding that the "biosecurity" categoery is about a month old? It would be interesting to understand how much of the "existential risk" category is devoted to biosecurity or pandemics, and how recent those posts are. Pending the above, my tentative takeaway from this is that COVID - arguably the greatest threat to human health and wellbeing in the past…

The rationalist and EA communities are often credited for taking Covid much more seriously sooner than most and the media did. https://unherd.com/2020/12/how-rational-have-you-been-this-y...

> Sooner than most and the media.

This is a very low bar to jump over!

Anyway I read through that article. There's a lot of guff about Newcomb's paradox and Eliezer, and a single paragraph referencing COVID, with two links supporting your statement. I've clicked through those links and have come out unimpressed.

The first link is used to supported the claim that "The rationalist community was well ahead of the public": https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/14/a-failure-but-not-of-p... .

Scott rightly highlights how the media and institutions got things wrong, but conversely gives only a few examples of "generic smart people on Twitter" getting some things right in the early days of the outbreak. He confesses that he himself did not predict the seriousness of COVID.

The second link is used to support the claim "the wider tech community, were using masks and stocking up on essential goods, even as others were saying to worry about the flu instead": https://putanumonit.com/2020/02/27/seeing-the-smoke/ .

The linked article was written at the end of February, when panic-buying had already firmly set in across the US.

There is nothing here about the reasoning or predictive abilities of the rationalist or EA community specifically. Nor is there any compelling comparison of its response compared to the wider public.

Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#169
post #141

AI safety is an apocalypse cult and we should recognize that everyone who has ever been in an apocalypse cult thinks that "no, this time it's really the end of the world". Everyone who believes crazy shit thinks they're being reasonable, so just because we're super sure we're being reasonable doesn't mean what we believe isn't crazy. Do we believe that we alone, of all people who have believed in the coming end, have…

I'm sure a lot of people are basing their belief on AI on sci-fi interpretation. If you're one of the folks doing this at least acknowledge the story would have been quite boring if it was 800 pages of "everything went well, the AI turned out really great, very helpful. Would use again" If you're not blindly afraid of zombies you shouldn't be blindly afraid of AI. Give it thought. If you're still scared after dismiss…

The AI safety community has many people who were previously extremely optimistic about the sheer world-changing potential of AI, but then realized that getting AI right might be harder than getting it wrong, and that figuring out how to get it right must be a priority before a superintelligent AI is made. It's not people who just saw Terminator and made up their mind.

Re: Effective Altruism’s obsession with AI safety helps bury bad behavior

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been people for a long time who think the world is going to end. We can use your argument to dismiss anyone who fears any existential risk like asteroids, nuclear war, climate change, AI, etc... And since the world exists every group will be wrong except one. I think the risk of human extermination is much lower than many in this group believe because I think AI is much more compute bound than algorithm bo…

> AI is much more compute bound than algorithm bound Any reason to believe this? The human brain runs on 20 watts (!). Obviously biological hardware is not directly comparable to silicon, perhaps silicon is intrinsically less efficient by some factor such that in order to obtain 20W of human brain compute we need to expend K times more in silicon. But is that factor really so large that we are compute-bound? How big…

So there are many failure modes possible here.

Yudkowsky's hard take off mentions "solving protein folding", nanomachines, persuading everyone to let them connect to the internet, infinite adaptability, etc. I think those are unrealistic, but obviously they still have a non-zero chance.

More probably bad possibilities are AI-Hitler (monomaniacal populist absolute leader) or AI-Stalin (manipulative, smart, absolutely paranoid, rising through the ranks) ... so something that's human-like enough to be able to connect with humans, to manipulate them, but at the same time less affected by the psychological shortcomings. (Ie. such an AI could spend enough time to cross-interrogate every underling, constantly watch them, etc.)

And yes, a very efficient immortal dictator is very bad news, but still bound by human-like limits.

And the big infinite dollar question is could this hypothetical AI improve on itself by transcending human limits? Let's say by directly writing programs that it has conscious control over? Can it truly "watch" a 1000 video streams in real-time?

Can it increase the number of its input-and-output channels while maintaining its human-like efficiency?

Because it's very different to run a fast neural network that spits out a myriad labels for every frame of a video stream (YOLO does this already, but it's not 20W!) and to integrate those labels into actions based on a constantly evolving strategy.

Sure maybe the hypothetical AI will simply run a lot of AlphaZero-like hybrid tree-search estimator-evaluator things ...

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that our 20W efficiency comes with getting tried very fast, and using "fast mode" thinking for everything. (Slow mode is the exception, and using it is so rare that we basically pop open a glass of champagne every time.)

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