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French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

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Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just because people died young. The mode (most common) age of death was over 75 in France for men in 1930. I'm not sure how WWII factors into that. It's now about 82, eyeballing it (yes, still higher). https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_POPU_1204_0683--the-mos... People were not "old" and dying at appreciably higher rates given they reached age 60 back then. The general premise that there's a lot of rich old…

> The mode (most common) age of death was over 75 in France for men in 1930. The most common age of death in France, for both men and women, in 1930 was 0.

Unless the words “men” and “women” imply adulthood, as they do in ordinary conversation.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#552
post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly how America became America.

Except for the mainland of America has things like warm weather and days of uniform length

Do you think frontier and settler life was easy and comfortable?

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#553
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's building massive amounts of underused housing. US boomers could have built long-lived buildings and infrastructure (high-speed trains) which provide usefulness to people later in exchange for them paying some money for retirees. Instead, they built ever-decaying roads and rotting ticky-tacky boxes and left nothing durable for future generations. Hell, they even ripped out trains in cities across the country.…

Wasn't the Seattle interurban torn up in the early 1940s? I don't think you can blame that on the boomers.

That's probably correct. Burke Gilman trail ripped out tracks in the 70s though.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#554
post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> deficit that was literally created by giving money to large companies and rich people in the form of tax deductions, I have no particular knowledge of French macro economic policies, but a tax deduction is not "giving money". It is "not taking money". Your framing assumes that corporate or individual earnings belong to the government and the government can decide to allow the money to be "given" to the taxpayer. Wh…

Not taking money that otherwise would be taken absolutely is giving money. Let me know if the government decides to absolve you of all taxes if you don't think at the end of your year that you've been given money. Also that's conveniently the narrative that Macron's party would adopt were it the other way (read: when they "give" a one-off cheque to students or poor people). Accounting tricks have broad shoulders to t…

the question comes down to whether or not the money is viewed as the person's, as a part of personal property, or viewed as the government's, as a part of state ownership.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#555
post #538
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know, I would be happy to end the arrangement, even though it would mean losing my Social Security benefits, which I should come into soon. I think it’s a terrible system. I am just having trouble understanding your terminology.

His terminology makes sense and it hits directly to the core of the problem: It's a ponzi scheme. These people were not saving into "retirements". They were giving their money, freely, for other people in the expectation that the next generation will do the same.

Agree completely that it’s a Ponzi scheme

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#556
post #510

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

> "Giving old people money for free " uh, didn't the old people finance their own social security? Didn't they give up money their whole lives to finance their homes? Don't they contribute to society in other less-measurable ways? That said, there could be some ways to retire, but be able to work in such a way that retirement is not adversely affected. Some of my friends who retired had to carefully not work or socia…

> uh, didn't the old people finance their own social security?

No, that's the original marketing but the payments you get out of it aren't related to the ones you put into it i.e. they're just a tax to fund the program.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#557
post #510

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

> "Giving old people money for free " uh, didn't the old people finance their own social security? Didn't they give up money their whole lives to finance their homes? Don't they contribute to society in other less-measurable ways? That said, there could be some ways to retire, but be able to work in such a way that retirement is not adversely affected. Some of my friends who retired had to carefully not work or socia…

[deleted]

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#558
post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the system is expecting population to grow infinitely and holding everyone to hostage for it then the system needs to change.

Be careful what you wish for. Societal change comes with disorder.

So does infinite population growth.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#559
post #510

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

> "Giving old people money for free " uh, didn't the old people finance their own social security? Didn't they give up money their whole lives to finance their homes? Don't they contribute to society in other less-measurable ways? That said, there could be some ways to retire, but be able to work in such a way that retirement is not adversely affected. Some of my friends who retired had to carefully not work or socia…

> In the original Act benefits were to be paid only to the primary worker when he/she retired at age 65. Benefits were to be based on payroll tax contributions that the worker made during his/her working life. Taxes would first be collected in 1937 and monthly benefits would begin in 1942. (Under amendments passed in 1939, payments were advanced to 1940.)

That's from https://www.ssa.gov/history/briefhistory3.html - so generally, the old were financed by the younger at inception, and that's basically continued ever since. Nobody funded their own SSN fully between 1937 and 1940.

That sort of insurance is still a good idea.

The "house" part of the person you're replying to's post is interesting: "Giving old people money for free when their 10x more valuable houses inflate the market"

By definition, anyone whose house is 10x more valuable than it was when they bought it is not inflating the market. The people buying at the new price are the ones driving the current valuation of that house.

But constrained supply does also come into play; and other forms of social assistance are conditional on income levels and such; it wouldn't be totally unreasonable or unprecedented to make some benefits conditional on assets in cases like that - if you're sitting on a 900k asset, maybe leverage that first if you don't otherwise have any savings? And in doing so, open up that spot for a younger generation that still has to commute, etc?

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#560

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

The good example of the extreme skew is Japan, when government optimizes their policies in favor of old people at the expense of young people who can't even influence the policy enough.
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