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French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

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Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#321

Post by bjourne »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #304

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

At some point we have to rethink what "contributing to the system" means. What are web developers designing ads for online casinos contributing?

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#322

Post by oblio »

Spooky23 wrote: post #279
nyokodo wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Which is just a socialized form of the previous social security system which had children or grandchildren look after their parents. Of course, the glaring difference is that social security schemes have motivated many millions, who otherwise might have, to not have children at all or an inadequate number and so contribute very little to n…

That’s a pretty crazy position. In the US, there’s lots of material out there on the conditions that led to the creation of Social Security and subsequent legislation like Medicare and Medicaid. Hopefully you are simply ignorant of that history and not demonstrating a blase tolerance of human suffering. These systems are very sustainable, and the solution to the funding issues would be best served by indexing the cut…

I assume you're a software developer in the US. Doesn't your awesome insurance mean that you are out of pocket just a few thousand dollars?

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#323

Post by JenrHywy »

notch898a wrote: post #290
AussieWog93 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically the system we started rolling out in Australia in the 90s (see mandatory super). Unfortunately it doesn't work for everyone, though, and a traditional pension is still needed as a backup.

It seems like unfortunately many governments have proven incapable of responsibly handling the money. In the case the government is entirely incapable of handling the money I'd at least see the worker get that tax waved to have something for whatever meager existence is left with the money.

In Aus, the government doesn't manage the money. They set a mandatory percentage of your wage which must be put into superannuation, but you as an individual can choose the fund to manage your account, and you can move funds at-will with no penalty. The Tax Office actually facilitates the move to help prevent any nefarious actions from the funds.

There is also the option of running a self-managed fund, where you invest the money yourself.

That said, it has created an incredibly politically powerful industry managing $3.3 trillion, which comes with its own issues.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#324

Post by mzs »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

> France's system has the working population pay for the pension on the retirees, as a social security tax. With the retirement age around 62-65, with the lifespan increasing, and with the Baby Boomers retiring, it isn't a sustainable system.

It can be sustainable, even at comprable rates, especially with fewer younger workers if wages are allowed to increase to meet labor demand.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#325

Post by nonethewiser »

bjourne wrote: post #321
atleastoptimal wrote: post #304

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

At some point we have to rethink what "contributing to the system" means. What are web developers designing ads for online casinos contributing?

That’s the nature of social programs. They’re for everyone.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#326

Post by noobermin »

supernova87a wrote: post #156

One big challenge I see with the whole business about pension reform (and government spending in fact) as a public debate is that two sides are talking on totally different planes. In France, and someday very soon, here in the US. And the public in a certain sense, will problematically have to end up voting a simple yes/no on extremely complex topics which are incentivized to push buttons on single issues. cf. Brexit…

I read the article and no, I do not see that there is no getting around the severity of the situation. The very last plot is ridiculous, how can they even extrapolate that from the graph given?

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#327

Post by game_the0ry »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #304

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

> As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with a more people who are purely consumers, but contribute nothing to the system.

Sort of off topic, but I do agree that the older generations in the western world, particularly the american baby boomers, act sociopathic as a group. There is a good book about this: A generation of sociopaths. [1]

Sad to watch an entire generation hate their children and grandchildren (if they even have them). Believe me, I do not enjoy painting an entire group of people with a shit-stained brush, but it is what it is and it should be called out.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Sociopaths-Boomers-Betraye...

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#328

Post by mzs »

karaterobot wrote: post #284

Honest question: what should the French government do instead? Some people in this thread have said that the government doesn't need to increase the retirement age by 2 years. If that's so, why are they proposing to? Have they done the math incorrectly, are they being needlessly cruel, or ...?

Increase wages.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#329

Post by nonethewiser »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #304

In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…

Stop Social Security. It’s literally a ponzi scheme that’s justified by the fallacious reasoning of “well I paid into it.”

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#330

Post by mzs »

supernova87a wrote: post #156

One big challenge I see with the whole business about pension reform (and government spending in fact) as a public debate is that two sides are talking on totally different planes. In France, and someday very soon, here in the US. And the public in a certain sense, will problematically have to end up voting a simple yes/no on extremely complex topics which are incentivized to push buttons on single issues. cf. Brexit…

That's about debt not social security.
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