Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month • Hacker News Board

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#341

Post by incrudible » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 5:05 PM UTC

nforgerit wrote: post #199

incrudible wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth about the climate is that whatever Germany does, it does not really make a difference, but also that what they have done (rolling out renewables) did not even work (high CO2 footprint, dependency on gas, coal and electricity imports).

You're parroting populist statements of political parties who actively destroyed the chance Germany had to transform their energy system and industry towards green energy. And now the same people are claiming that they were right from the beginning. The "truth" is that the Energiewende was a wise decision from early 2000s for Germany making a case that it'd be possible to transform an industry nation to renewables an…

This is the pathological blaming of foreign influence on the failure of an ideology to deliver on its promises. It would have worked, if only. First of all, you do not know that. Secondly, it did in fact not work. Your solution did not take into account whatever factor made it fail, so it failed.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#342

Post by badpun » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 8:26 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #330

badpun wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about that. The subsidies that a functioning public transport requires every year are massive as well. I wouldn't be surprised if they exceeded the cost of extra infrastructure (roads, parking etc.) required by private cars.

Public transport would obviously need much less space and would be much more efficient. It’s the car sprawl that is unsustainable in every way.

In a dense city centers? Probably. Everywhere else? I'm not so sure. An average person will is bothered by wait times longer than 10 minutes and wants the stop to be within 5-7 minutes from their door. So, you'd have to run a bus/tram every 10 minutes through a ton of sleepy suburbs, which may not even see a car every 10 minutes. It's just not rational.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#343

Post by nforgerit » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 9:18 PM UTC

incrudible wrote: post #341

nforgerit wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're parroting populist statements of political parties who actively destroyed the chance Germany had to transform their energy system and industry towards green energy. And now the same people are claiming that they were right from the beginning. The "truth" is that the Energiewende was a wise decision from early 2000s for Germany making a case that it'd be possible to transform an industry nation to renewables an…

This is the pathological blaming of foreign influence on the failure of an ideology to deliver on its promises. It would have worked, if only. First of all, you do not know that. Secondly, it did in fact not work. Your solution did not take into account whatever factor made it fail, so it failed.

Ha, in Germany the people who use the word "ideology" are almost always chief ideologists themselves.

I'm not even blaming "foreign influence". We have good data that car manufacturers, energy and chemical companies didn't want to risk their profitable fossil-based business models and thus lobbied the according governments.

> It would have worked, if only. First of all, you do not know that.

Well, as I said, it worked that well that electricity prices skyrocketed and Germany set a world record in renewable electricity production in ~2012. We had >200k employees in a (IIRC) world leading solar industry. Nowadays you can only buy Chinese solar products while the German solar industry is dead.

> Secondly, it did in fact not work. Your solution did not take into account whatever factor made it fail, so it failed.

That kind of argument opens up a can of worms where everything is legit. Just because people don't "like" some project would legitimize harming the country they've sworn to protect. Why oh why is my first association the lies about Brexit.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#344

Post by WinstonSmith84 » Wed, Mar 08, 2023, 8:41 AM UTC

panick21_ wrote: post #267

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has very few fast trains ... going fast (not many train tracks are built for fast trains). It got better in the last few years, but there is still a lot to do (and catch up with France). As for the "regional" trains (that this offer is talking about), they go really slow and are just for people commuting. This kind of monthly offer would be sort of interesting if it were to apply to the ICE trains, as current…

Are you american? The idea that trains are for 'commuting' is nonsense, they are for 'living'.

No I'm not American. And I don't live on a train either, not that (normal) Europeans do that either ...

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#345

Post by incrudible » Thu, Mar 09, 2023, 2:50 PM UTC

nforgerit wrote: post #343

incrudible wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the pathological blaming of foreign influence on the failure of an ideology to deliver on its promises. It would have worked, if only. First of all, you do not know that. Secondly, it did in fact not work. Your solution did not take into account whatever factor made it fail, so it failed.

Ha, in Germany the people who use the word "ideology" are almost always chief ideologists themselves. I'm not even blaming "foreign influence". We have good data that car manufacturers, energy and chemical companies didn't want to risk their profitable fossil-based business models and thus lobbied the according governments. > It would have worked, if only. First of all, you do not know that. Well, as I said, it worke…

> I'm not even blaming "foreign influence".

It's an analogy. Foreign in this case means "foreign to your ideology", if you will.

> We have good data that car manufacturers, energy and chemical companies didn't want to risk their profitable fossil-based business models and thus lobbied the according governments.

Again, "foreign influence". We're talking about electricity. Car manufacturers and chemical companies don't care whether their electricity comes out of a coal plant or a windmill. They care about price. Production capacity of renewables may be impressive on paper and therefore cheap in theory, but it's not available on demand. That requires (hitherto non-existent) buffering solutions that completely change the economics. So, you did not provide a comprehensive solution that takes these factors into account, therefore you failed. Rather than learn from your mistake and tackle the harder parts of the problem, you blame others. This is how I know I'm dealing with an ideology.

> Nowadays you can only buy Chinese solar products while the German solar industry is dead.

I don't see how that's relevant. If you can't produce solar panels more efficiently than the Chinese, then you should just buy them from the Chinese if you need them.