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French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

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Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#131

Post by skywal_l »

rat9988 wrote: post #101
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

it isn't a sustainable system. This is wrong. We have an institute that has one mission. Evaluate its sustainibility, and it disagrees with you.

That is not correct. Have a look at this 20mn interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngnxmampNBM

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#132

Post by cperciva »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #23
kwere wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe the poorer parts of society should stop trying to be overeliant on the tax levied on a minority of skilled earners (so no trust fund kids) creating welfarism/populism, breaking the fabric of society (as in ancient Rome),incentivizing emigration/delocalization of taxbase; and try to be more selfsufficient from a budget stanpoint, like having a self-funded pension system, that in France case would be increasin…

"skilled earners" here being a euphemism for inherited wealth oligarchs and trust fund kiddies, or are we pretending wage earing individuals are included in the top 1%?

are we pretending wage earing individuals are included in the top 1%?

You seem to be confusing the top 1% with the top 0.01%. The vast majority of top 1% income earners -- in Canada, the number was recently reported as 95% by Statistics Canada -- are employed, with the largest numbers being in management, medicine, and "business professional" (lawyers, accountants, etc) professions.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#133

Post by [deleted] »

wskinner wrote: post #28
crmd wrote: post #4

A wealth tax (instead of income tax) is the best way to reverse the capital hoarding which is destroying modern society. Go after their assets.

Impressive to pack so many assumptions in such a short comment. - wealth tax is the best way - capital hoarding is a thing - capital hoarding is destroying modern society

[deleted]

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#134

Post by lotsofpulp »

justeleblanc wrote: post #98
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Where do you think the money comes from? Thin air? Any increase in the value of pension funds (for example) is coming from the workers.

The money is just an entry in the accounting ledger allocating society's labor. The pension fund can increase to trillions and quadrillions, and it will not make a difference if there is not enough people willing to change bedpans for as low of a price as was originally expected.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#135

Post by bradlys »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #89
bradlys wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state has this thing called the military. If it wants to - it’ll get you back and take your money by force. I figured people would understand that this is an option when people like Jack Ma go missing for a few months.

They do this and literally every billionaire will immediately leave. Seems a bit short sighted.

That's the fun part - your military makes it so they can't leave.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#136

Post by bsaul »

yodsanklai wrote: post #127
moremetadata wrote: post #92

This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France is not alone, other country's have raised the pension age, but other countries use their food legislation to keep the population docile, high house prices to keep people from protesting for fear of losing a roof over their head, and other tactics people are getting wise to an…

> This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France pension system isn't close to bankruptcy. It needs some adjustment but pushing retirement age isn't the only option. Also one thing to understand is that there are two criteria to get a full pension 1. work 43 years (this used to be 36.5 but has been increased 10 years ago)…

"france has never been as rich in history". Which number are you talking about ?

It seems like a pretty hard fact to demonstrate. If you look at the production of france-based international companies, then you're also including the production performed by citizen of other countries. If you look at total revenue per inhabitant, then you need to adjust for inflation, and the fact that some citizen gain revenues from production performed in other countries (via shares, or simply working in a multinational company)

What's clear however, is that france as never been ranked lower in every international ranking (education and economy) as today.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#137

Post by dh2022 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #127
moremetadata wrote: post #92

This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France is not alone, other country's have raised the pension age, but other countries use their food legislation to keep the population docile, high house prices to keep people from protesting for fear of losing a roof over their head, and other tactics people are getting wise to an…

> This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France pension system isn't close to bankruptcy. It needs some adjustment but pushing retirement age isn't the only option. Also one thing to understand is that there are two criteria to get a full pension 1. work 43 years (this used to be 36.5 but has been increased 10 years ago)…

But the rules have to change because the demographics changed. The number of old people is increasing, the size of the workforce is not increasing.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#138

Post by conradfr »

yodsanklai wrote: post #127
moremetadata wrote: post #92

This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France is not alone, other country's have raised the pension age, but other countries use their food legislation to keep the population docile, high house prices to keep people from protesting for fear of losing a roof over their head, and other tactics people are getting wise to an…

> This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France pension system isn't close to bankruptcy. It needs some adjustment but pushing retirement age isn't the only option. Also one thing to understand is that there are two criteria to get a full pension 1. work 43 years (this used to be 36.5 but has been increased 10 years ago)…

One more point is that the employment rate for 55+yo in France is quite bad (56% in 2021 for 55-64yo).

So for a lot of people pushing the retirement age means surviving two more years with their savings and the small welfare benefit (as regular unemployment benefit is capped at two years).

This is not addressed at all by this reform.

Also the government was caught lying about some aspects of this reform (and still do).

edit: not sure why downvoted for adding facts

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#139

Post by incrudible »

lm28469 wrote: post #63
incrudible wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gas supply did in fact change, as did demand. Even a small shortage can drive prices up dramatically, because gasoline is critically important.

Prices yes, you're looking at _profits_ though

If you have a 5% profit margin and the price doubles, so do your profits. Of course you could lower your profit margins and pass up on the opportunity of the decade.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#140

Post by ChemSpider »

yodsanklai wrote: post #127
moremetadata wrote: post #92

This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France is not alone, other country's have raised the pension age, but other countries use their food legislation to keep the population docile, high house prices to keep people from protesting for fear of losing a roof over their head, and other tactics people are getting wise to an…

> This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France pension system isn't close to bankruptcy. It needs some adjustment but pushing retirement age isn't the only option. Also one thing to understand is that there are two criteria to get a full pension 1. work 43 years (this used to be 36.5 but has been increased 10 years ago)…

Many countries in the EU have 67 as retirement age - so 64 does not feel a big issue to me. (France and Malta are the only one with 62)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement_in_Europe

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