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French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

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Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#101

Post by rat9988 »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

it isn't a sustainable system.

This is wrong. We have an institute that has one mission. Evaluate its sustainibility, and it disagrees with you.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#102

Post by aetherson »

justeleblanc wrote: post #98
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Where do you think the money comes from? Thin air? Any increase in the value of pension funds (for example) is coming from the workers.

I think a lot of people assume that pension systems ought to or actually do work as savings/investment systems, like private 401(k)s do. So you pay into the system when you're working age, your money is saved, then it is paid out to you later.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#103

Post by omegaworks »

tiedieconderoga wrote: post #99
omegaworks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

̶F̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶o̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶c̶y̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶y̶s̶t̶e̶m̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶i̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶a̶x̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶.̶ Oops I forgot about the Euro. Oh well, so much for sovereignty.

If they print more money to meet their pension obligations, that causes inflation which quickly erodes the value of the payments. So, printing money to meet pension obligations has a similar effect to reducing the amount which is paid out. Also, I don't think many people accept Francs as currency anymore.

> that causes inflation which quickly erodes the value of the payment

Pension payments cover basic subsistence-level costs for goods that can be mitigated by supply-side production and productivity increases. Claiming that they cause inflation is just rebranded austerity politics. Inflation is caused by fraudulent debt-relief for "businesses" like we saw with PPP and low interest rates that create asset price and shitcoin bubbles.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#104

Post by Izikiel43 »

aetherson wrote: post #102
justeleblanc wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Where do you think the money comes from? Thin air? Any increase in the value of pension funds (for example) is coming from the workers.

I think a lot of people assume that pension systems ought to or actually do work as savings/investment systems, like private 401(k)s do. So you pay into the system when you're working age, your money is saved, then it is paid out to you later.

After seeing the pensioners in my home country living in poverty because of economic crisis destroying their pensions, the government using pension money as if it was its own, and being actively hostile to pensioners by delaying trials to pay the pension money fairly waiting for them to die, I will take a 401(k) over that always, my money is mine and no one else's.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#105

Post by luckylion »

justeleblanc wrote: post #98
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Where do you think the money comes from? Thin air? Any increase in the value of pension funds (for example) is coming from the workers.

Isn't the UK using pension funds?

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#106

Post by flashfaffe2 »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

French here:

Though the problem is well known (at least for 40 years), No french governments has considered diversifying the source of the revenue funding the pension system. Actually its worse as the only capitalisation existing are in a process to be nationalised.

Moreover, this reform is purely the outcome of political game. Macron electorat is mainly the 'boomers' who fully beneficiated of th situation ( in fact their pension are impacted despite having higher wealth than the majority of the workers).

I personally would consider a reform only if there an effort requested for everyone.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#107

Post by mywittyname »

aetherson wrote: post #102
justeleblanc wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Where do you think the money comes from? Thin air? Any increase in the value of pension funds (for example) is coming from the workers.

I think a lot of people assume that pension systems ought to or actually do work as savings/investment systems, like private 401(k)s do. So you pay into the system when you're working age, your money is saved, then it is paid out to you later.

I'm not sure about every pension system, but there are many that invest in government bonds. The problem what that approach is the sustainability of the system depends entirely upon interest rates, which have been at all time lows for the past 15 years. Some private pensions invest in the broader market.

All investment systems suffer from this exact problem: returns aren't guaranteed. Even people with 401ks might experience this same issue if investment returns fall below the conventional wisdom rate of ~7% (or 4% real). But even if that rate holds up over the long-term, there's still to risk of a "lost decade" of no-returns or losses for and extended period, followed by a sudden market pop.

Pensions are hard.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#108

Post by UncleOxidant »

justeleblanc wrote: post #98
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Where do you think the money comes from? Thin air? Any increase in the value of pension funds (for example) is coming from the workers.

And it wasn't a problem when the working age population was always increasing... but when it no longer is (as is the case in much of Europe) it becomes problematic.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#109

Post by argentinian »

omegaworks wrote: post #103
tiedieconderoga wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they print more money to meet their pension obligations, that causes inflation which quickly erodes the value of the payments. So, printing money to meet pension obligations has a similar effect to reducing the amount which is paid out. Also, I don't think many people accept Francs as currency anymore.

> that causes inflation which quickly erodes the value of the payment Pension payments cover basic subsistence-level costs for goods that can be mitigated by supply-side production and productivity increases. Claiming that they cause inflation is just rebranded austerity politics. Inflation is caused by fraudulent debt-relief for "businesses" like we saw with PPP and low interest rates that create asset price and shi…

> Inflation is caused by fraudulent debt-relief for "businesses"

Sure? Tell that to Argentina, Venezuela, Zimbawe and Turkey.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#110

Post by golemotron »

rat9988 wrote: post #101
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

it isn't a sustainable system. This is wrong. We have an institute that has one mission. Evaluate its sustainibility, and it disagrees with you.

We should make a list of organizations that have one mission and fail in that mission. It would take much time.
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