French workers protest plan to increase retirement age • Hacker News Board

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#91

Post by WkndTriathlete » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:43 PM UTC

jmclnx wrote: post #79

I have to say, the people in France really know how to live! Here in the US, people do not give a sh**. Already benefits have been reduced to the point were you cannot live on Social Security unless you pitch a tent next to a dumpster outside of a restaurant. Not only that, every year the retirement age is increased. For people born after 1960 full retirement is 67. The GOP in congress is trying to raise it to 70. Do…

> Here in the US, people do not give a sh*. Already benefits have been reduced to the point were you cannot live on Social Security unless you pitch a tent next to a dumpster outside of a restaurant.

This is a problem with Congress not managing the Social Security system properly over the last 85 years.

> Not only that, every year the retirement age is increased. For people born after 1960 full retirement is 67. The GOP in congress is trying to raise it to 70.

See the life expectancy and demographic tables published here by none other than the SSA: https://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html

That's because the combination of benefits times life expectancy times demographics is either going to result in a 25% reduction in benefits that the SSA can pay out or result in a high tax burden on workers (read: major economic drag and recessions) or some kind of half-assed compromise in between.

Had Congress continuously and properly managed the retirement ages, contributions, and SS trust funds properly over the last 85 years we would not be having this conversation. But they haven't, and now there will be pain for almost everyone because of it.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#92

Post by moremetadata » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:47 PM UTC

This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country.

France is not alone, other country's have raised the pension age, but other countries use their food legislation to keep the population docile, high house prices to keep people from protesting for fear of losing a roof over their head, and other tactics people are getting wise to and slowly rejecting when they wake up to the subtle forms of manipulation that goes on.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#93

Post by omegaworks » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:48 PM UTC

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

̶F̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶o̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶c̶y̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶y̶s̶t̶e̶m̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶i̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶a̶x̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶.̶

Oops I forgot about the Euro. Oh well, so much for sovereignty.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#94

Post by vikingerik » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:49 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #10

The way retirement is done was broken from the start. If you have a fixed age, you will get issues when the population pyramid changes and fewer people are around to support the retired. What the system ought to be is: 1) Everyone who can't work gets a pension/state support/whatever you want to call it. If you get run over by a car at 25, you are on this list until you die and the state supports you. It's expensive,…

1) Everyone who can't work gets a pension/state support/whatever you want to call it.

Of course, this creates a giant perverse incentive to get yourself classified as "can't work". Ask the US Social Security disability system how that goes.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#95

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:49 PM UTC

moremetadata wrote: post #92

This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France is not alone, other country's have raised the pension age, but other countries use their food legislation to keep the population docile, high house prices to keep people from protesting for fear of losing a roof over their head, and other tactics people are getting wise to an…

[deleted]

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#96

Post by AceJohnny2 » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #93

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

̶F̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶o̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶c̶y̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶y̶s̶t̶e̶m̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶i̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶a̶x̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶.̶ Oops I forgot about the Euro. Oh well, so much for sovereignty.

> France has control of its currency

No it does not. It uses the Euro, which technically requires it to maintain a balance.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#97

Post by sokoloff » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #93

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

̶F̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶o̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶c̶y̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶y̶s̶t̶e̶m̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶i̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶a̶x̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶.̶ Oops I forgot about the Euro. Oh well, so much for sovereignty.

Honest question: is that the case? I thought the Euro adoption meant they couldn't print currency with the same freedoms that say the US or UK could.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#98

Post by justeleblanc » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Where do you think the money comes from? Thin air? Any increase in the value of pension funds (for example) is coming from the workers.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#99

Post by tiedieconderoga » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #93

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

̶F̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶o̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶c̶y̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶y̶s̶t̶e̶m̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶i̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶a̶x̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶.̶ Oops I forgot about the Euro. Oh well, so much for sovereignty.

If they print more money to meet their pension obligations, that causes inflation which quickly erodes the value of the payments.

So, printing money to meet pension obligations has a similar effect to reducing the amount which is paid out.

Also, I don't think many people accept Francs as currency anymore.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#100

Post by ccooffee » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 7:00 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #97

omegaworks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

̶F̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶o̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶c̶y̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶y̶s̶t̶e̶m̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶i̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶a̶x̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶.̶ Oops I forgot about the Euro. Oh well, so much for sovereignty.

Honest question: is that the case? I thought the Euro adoption meant they couldn't print currency with the same freedoms that say the US or UK could.

You are correct and Euro comes with restrictions on creating currency for macroeconomic reasons. This was in the limelight during the 2008-2012 Greek debt crisis, and also came up around that time for other EU countries (Spain and Portugal at least). Additionally, Iceland, which does not use the Euro, had at one time pegged their króna to the Euro which caused issues in the 2008-2012 time period (though as I recall the main problem had to do with some other nation taking a major Icelandic bank into receivership post-2007 collapse).