Top 10% wealthy of population in France holds almost 50% of net wealth of the country, which is around $16 trillion. That gives $8 trillion that could be taxed at higher rates, which is a far greater pool to extract from than just billionaires discussed throughout this thread.
French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
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Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or maybe the poorer parts of society should stop trying to be overeliant on the tax levied on a minority of skilled earners (so no trust fund kids) creating welfarism/populism, breaking the fabric of society (as in ancient Rome),incentivizing emigration/delocalization of taxbase; and try to be more selfsufficient from a budget stanpoint, like having a self-funded pension system, that in France case would be increasin…
So what the US is doing ? I don't feel like they're doing much better, especially for the bottom 30%
USA is a lot inefficient with spending money as a lot of it get syphoned in one way or another from various interest groups, from big pharma/healthcare/insurance, hedge funds that run universities to local government that run homeless shelter in opaque way (ask Cuomo sister). As OECD data, US social spending as % of GDP is above OECD average at 22.7%[0]
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#73The way retirement is done was broken from the start. If you have a fixed age, you will get issues when the population pyramid changes and fewer people are around to support the retired. What the system ought to be is: 1) Everyone who can't work gets a pension/state support/whatever you want to call it. If you get run over by a car at 25, you are on this list until you die and the state supports you. It's expensive,…
idk man, I've been sold capitalism as this great wealth generating machine, the trickle down economy, the invisible hand of the free market, yadda yadda yadda
This isn't a maths equation, it's a societal choice, that's why Macron doesn't get it, he's a bead counter for Maastricht, what he does is making sure the spreadsheet is balanced
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#74I have no comment on the issue at hand, but I've got to give it to the French for their always impressive level of civil engagement. It feels like Americans are far less willing to take to the streets to support/oppose political causes than they were in times past, and I think that's a shame.
When Americans take to the streets in some states, it's legal to drive through them.
In which states? Under what conditions? What is allowed if a mob threatens or begins to pull you and your family out of your car and beat you to death?
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have a tiny wealth tax in Norway, so now the richest are moving to Switzerland.
Switzerland also has a tiny wealth tax for all residents
Switzerland has a tiny wealth tax instead of a capital gains tax, Switzerland's is 0.3% and Norway's wealth tax is above 1% and also has capital gains tax, totally different. The total tax per wealth is much much lower. Also you can opt for a lump sum tax, and then you don't tax your wealth or income at all, you just pay tax based on your expenses. Switzerland's tax is very lax.
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly... https://www.tf1info.fr/economie/reforme-des-retraites-2023-y... https://www.cor-retraites.fr/node/595 https://linsoumission.fr/2023/01/16/retraites-milliardaires-...
The total net worth of all of French billionaires is ~half a trillion dollars, so it could only cover the 30 billion per year pension deficit for about 15 to 20 years if you seized 100% of their wealth (and somehow didn't cause disastrous economic side effects in the process). Not seeing anything in your first two links to support your claim, not going to bother with the other two links. I just really wish the "eat t…
> 30 billion per year pension deficit
> I just really wish the "eat the rich" UBI crowd wasn't so innumerate.
It was +3.2b in 2022, + 0.9m in 2021, with a slight deficit predicted in the short term and equilibrium from 2030s (average scenario)
tl;dr : it's not a big deal, and certainly not the real reason of the change in retirement age
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#77The way retirement is done was broken from the start. If you have a fixed age, you will get issues when the population pyramid changes and fewer people are around to support the retired. What the system ought to be is: 1) Everyone who can't work gets a pension/state support/whatever you want to call it. If you get run over by a car at 25, you are on this list until you die and the state supports you. It's expensive,…
Really? Try injecting the majority of hoarded wealth into the equation and re-run the numbers, and then tell us there aren't enough workers to support the system.
How does the state seize the hoarded wealth when it can just move to a tax haven?
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
If there’s true political will one can do it, especially if you’re a country as big as France. Let’s say Arnault, the wealthiest French guy, decides to decamp for Switzerland were the French to introduce a wealth tax, then one of the most obvious solutions would be to nationalize his assets with pennies on the dollar, introduce an “emergency societal clause” in the mix to make it more “legal”, and I can assure you th…
> As recently as 1981 Mitterrand won the presidency by promising just that, i.e. nationalizations. And what a colossal failure that was. After two years of this policy, he was forced into a severe austerity turn. France's economy was never the same afterwards. After all you're right, if there's true political will, anyone can shoot themselves in the foot.
40 years later I don’t see the neoliberal policies as having done the trick for France, hence the current conundrum.
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#79I have to say, the people in France really know how to live!
Here in the US, people do not give a sh**. Already benefits have been reduced to the point were you cannot live on Social Security unless you pitch a tent next to a dumpster outside of a restaurant.
Not only that, every year the retirement age is increased. For people born after 1960 full retirement is 67. The GOP in congress is trying to raise it to 70.
Do US people care, no they do not. If this happened in France I think the full government would be dragged out and "guillotined".
I admire the French for standing up for their rights.
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction...
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where in your link does it say taxing the ultra wealthy would be enough to cover the pension shortfall? I'll give you a hint: nowhere.
> Oxfam France a calculé que seulement 2% de la fortune des milliardaires français suffirait à financer le déficit attendu des retraites.
I suspect the disconnect, then, is that the statement you quote appears to be referring to a tax on wealth, not income.
Moving the 2% to that puts it in the right order of magnitude; at that point, the discrepancy is likely to be in the guess of the retiring population size.