Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 835 posts

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#61

Post by incrudible »

boole1854 wrote: post #39
lm28469 wrote: post #2

That's what you get when 60%+ of the wealth generated in the last two years went to the top 1% and you ask the bottom 80% to work two years longer to cover for an imaginary deficit fyi taxing the 40 richest people in France 2% more would cover the same amount of money as having the entire active population work 2 more years. edit: since it's not clear, I'm talking about pension related debt (the main argument of the…

> fyi taxing the 40 richest people in France 2% more would cover the same amount of money as having the entire active population work 2 more years. My back-of-the-envelope calculations: Sum of wealth of top 40 richest people in France: 556 billion [1] Annual income of top 40 richest people in France, assuming 10% growth of wealth: 56 billion 2% additional tax on that income: 1 billion Size of active working populatio…

I think the idea is to tax the wealth, not the income on it, which at 10% would be well above the yields of pretty much any asset.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#62

Post by orwin »

fvdessen wrote: post #52
crmd wrote: post #4

A wealth tax (instead of income tax) is the best way to reverse the capital hoarding which is destroying modern society. Go after their assets.

France already has a wealth tax and it is famous for being completely ineffective. Very wealthy people just move away with their wealth to richer countries.

And it's suppression changed nothing, so getting it back should be nice.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#63

Post by lm28469 »

incrudible wrote: post #55
lm28469 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I pay my gas twice as much as 5 years ago, the dude selling the gas gets twice as much money, but nothing changed ? ok http://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/27887.jpeg

The gas supply did in fact change, as did demand. Even a small shortage can drive prices up dramatically, because gasoline is critically important.

Prices yes, you're looking at _profits_ though

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#64

Post by sam_lowry_ »

boole1854 wrote: post #39
lm28469 wrote: post #2

That's what you get when 60%+ of the wealth generated in the last two years went to the top 1% and you ask the bottom 80% to work two years longer to cover for an imaginary deficit fyi taxing the 40 richest people in France 2% more would cover the same amount of money as having the entire active population work 2 more years. edit: since it's not clear, I'm talking about pension related debt (the main argument of the…

> fyi taxing the 40 richest people in France 2% more would cover the same amount of money as having the entire active population work 2 more years. My back-of-the-envelope calculations: Sum of wealth of top 40 richest people in France: 556 billion [1] Annual income of top 40 richest people in France, assuming 10% growth of wealth: 56 billion 2% additional tax on that income: 1 billion Size of active working populatio…

This is what? Personal wealth? But wealth in France is rarely personal. It is rather distributed over controlling shares of private businesses and foundations, board seats and god knows what.

The richest family of France counts at least 700 members and most of these people run businesses from retail to mobile apps to media.

The French are no stupid. The state can not easily extort money from the likes of Mulliez, but it should try harder, not seek easy money from the working class.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#65

Post by lm28469 »

orwin wrote: post #60
HideousKojima wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pension deficit is 30 billion a year, so seizure of all French billionaires' wealth would still only cover the shortfall for 15 to 20 years.

30 billion a year? Second time I read this, where does it come from? I thought the system was beneficiary in 2021 and 2022? +900M in 2021 and +3B in 2022? I'd love to find where your information come from, mine is from the Cors (public entity) and from Agirco (private entity). Do you have this information from Facebook? Edit: full disclosure, I just walked 3 hours, danced in front of the police while holding a sign,…

No deficit for now: https://www.dna.fr/social/2022/09/13/le-regime-de-retraite-b...

Slight deficit expected in short term

Equilibrium at medium term

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#66

Post by lm28469 »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #50
lm28469 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same reasons. Which reasons ? Both systems are about as opposed as you can imagine without straight up walking out of capitalism

Yes, keep going...

You're the one making vague arguments, I'm not going to do your homework

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#67

Post by orwin »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #13

It's nice to see a populace willing to defend itself from the ruling class. If only we had this kind of organizational capability in the US.

Thanks. Some of us were so well organized with cool songs and stuff, I'm jealous so we're writing one for next week (probably based on Vian, Lluis Llash or Ogeret).

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#68

Post by gordian-mind »

paganel wrote: post #45
Thlom wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a tiny wealth tax in Norway, so now the richest are moving to Switzerland.

If there’s true political will one can do it, especially if you’re a country as big as France. Let’s say Arnault, the wealthiest French guy, decides to decamp for Switzerland were the French to introduce a wealth tax, then one of the most obvious solutions would be to nationalize his assets with pennies on the dollar, introduce an “emergency societal clause” in the mix to make it more “legal”, and I can assure you th…

> As recently as 1981 Mitterrand won the presidency by promising just that, i.e. nationalizations.

And what a colossal failure that was. After two years of this policy, he was forced into a severe austerity turn. France's economy was never the same afterwards.

After all you're right, if there's true political will, anyone can shoot themselves in the foot.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#69

Post by lm28469 »

HideousKojima wrote: post #56
lm28469 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to contact oxfam: https://www.oxfamfrance.org/rapports/nouveau-rapport-la-loi-...

Where in your link does it say taxing the ultra wealthy would be enough to cover the pension shortfall? I'll give you a hint: nowhere.

> Oxfam France a calculé que seulement 2% de la fortune des milliardaires français suffirait à financer le déficit attendu des retraites.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#70

Post by lm28469 »

MikeTheRocker wrote: post #11

I have no comment on the issue at hand, but I've got to give it to the French for their always impressive level of civil engagement. It feels like Americans are far less willing to take to the streets to support/oppose political causes than they were in times past, and I think that's a shame.

Looks like an unregulated militia of unarmed citizens does the job
Post reply on HN