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Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

ben-evans.com

201–210 of 289 posts

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#201
post #177

I never encountered ads on Amazon, so out of curiosity I disabled uBlock Origin and visited Amazon. It seems that the ads are for products sold on Amazon. Clicking an ad redirects you to the product page. Until now I thought that sites where you go to spend money are free of ads. This is a new low. What's next, ads on banking apps? Ads on the revenue service website? I think ads play the biggest part in why the Inter…

> Until now I thought that sites where you go to spend money are free of ads. This is a new low. What's next, ads on banking apps? Sorry to burst you bubble but this is how all of retail works including physical stores. From the moment you walk into a store everything you see from what products are “on sale” to the floor displays to where on the shelf an item appears is all “an advertisement” paid for by the product…

I worked at a Kroger in high school and I learned this fact then. A lady was assembling a big display for s’mores supplies (Hershey’s, Reese’s, brand name marshmallows, and some graham crackers). They paid for a premium spot in the store right next to the checkout lanes since it was near Fourth of July and they wanted to maximize sales.

Even the placement on store shelves is paid for. The prime shelf space costs more than the bottom shelf, for example.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sponsored segments on YouTube. Billboards. Sponsored texts in newspapers. "YC XXX is hiring" on HN. I use Firefox + uBlock Origin + Sponsorblock and a few others. Ads are still everywhere. Not as everywhere as they'd be without it, but it's not like adblocks get rid of them all together.

Not parent, but I don’t have most of those. > Sponsored segments on YouTube I only watch music videos and very rarely a how to repair video. > Billboards I guess I sometimes see those in US TV shows ;) > newspapers I think I remember those things ;) > is hiring I guess, never saw those as ads. Though now that I think about it, I have started to want to figure out what BuildZoom does with custom homes, why YC funded t…

>>Billboards

>I guess I sometimes see those in US TV shows ;)

Lucky. In Helsinki they're in every metro station, every bus stop, and sometimes just in random spots along busy streets. Oh, and every metro car has screens playing video ads.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#204
post #194

From https://www.amazon.jobs/content/en/our-workplace/leadership-... > Leaders start with the customer and work backwards. They work vigorously to earn and keep customer trust. What do you do when a product serves two customers (shoppers and advertisers?)

Profit?

[dead]

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#205
I keep trying to explain to people: they aren't "ads" they are "pay for customers to ever see your product". It's an extortion ring, basically.

Just like nobody ever opens page 2 of Google search, people rarely scroll down very far on Amazon's product search page. These "ads" just put the highest bidders' products at the top-K spots (and K keeps increasing) so that customers aren't see the most relevant products, just the ones who paid the most money.

Amazon spent 20+ years building customer trust. Now it's reaping its reward by selling it off wholesale.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#206
post #205

I keep trying to explain to people: they aren't "ads" they are "pay for customers to ever see your product". It's an extortion ring, basically. Just like nobody ever opens page 2 of Google search, people rarely scroll down very far on Amazon's product search page. These "ads" just put the highest bidders' products at the top-K spots (and K keeps increasing) so that customers aren't see the most relevant products, jus…

It is similar to all the subscriptions for social networks now (snap, meta, twitter) that will boost your posts if you're a subscriber. The top posts will have X% of sponsored or boosted content and X will grow over time (to increase revenue).

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#207
post #12
post #8

Anecdotally, I was connected to a number of people on the Ads team and years ago, the upper ups in the G machine were already extremely nervous of Amazon's internal ads system. Google has been regularly losing marketshare to Amazon because people perform searches for products directly there when previously it was done through google-search.

>Google has been regularly losing marketshare to Amazon because people perform searches for products directly there when previously it was done through google-search. Ironically Amazon has been so aggressive with the ads recently I've lost all trust in searching on Amazon itself. I'm back to using Google to find the Amazon product page. On Amazon I search for a specific brand and model and it's on page 4, buried unti…

[deleted]

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#208
Buying things these days:

Go to amazon search for product. Find something that looks reasonable.

Confirm review section has a reasonable distribution of stars and check out a few 1 and 3/4 star reviews (hope they're written by a human) and see if there are any deal breakers.

Go to google and enter " reddit reviews".

Go to reddit read reviews and hope they're not written by astroturf accounts, bots, or chatgpt (have to manually review accounts).

If reddit confirms the product is okay, then I check if I can find it directly on a company site to order direct.

If yes, have to confirm with reddit again to make sure the site is reliable and does returns / replacements, etc.

If yes, buy direct. If no, go back to amazon to buy product there.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#209
I bought an echo dot on a whim. I was going to post in the thread about Alexa's 'failure' about how miserable the experience was, how demanding of access it was, how little function it delivered in return.

But the second half of that story - the reason it led to me blacklisting Amazon belongs here:

A day or two after installing the Echo Dot, I wrote a very personal and long postponed email to my sister. We haven't communicated much in years. But COVID ended our mother's life, and ultimately lead to me having a heart attack and being diagnosed with a genetic condition. I wanted to pick up on something she said about memories of the house we shared growing up. I mentioned, in brief, the table tennis set up, and the bright red, multi-layered, over engineered table tennis bat I was bought as a youngster. I wanted to note that it was more expensive than those of my two elder siblings - and I didn't really know why that was the case. I was gently making a concession about the dynamics of our family and how maybe they said something about us as people - fourty years later. - as sensitively as I could, in the face of estrangement, mental health issues for both of us, family tragedy, the march of time on our bodies.

The next time I logged into Amazon - I was confronted by page after page of adverts for over engineered bright red table tennis bats.

End of relationship with Amazon.

I rarely use hotmail for personal emails, so maybe that was how the information leaked. But I doubt that. I think it was about that Echo dot sitting their verifying my identity as an amazon customer.

Amazon getting 'people' so wrong is - for me - just one of many signs that the FAANG's business model of the last 15, 20 years - is utterly doomed. Anyone thinking that opportunities to do better aren't staring the rest of us in the face, needs to wake up, and realise they maybe insects, in economic terms, but they're living on dinosaurs. Don't allow yourself to be decieved into thinking your current "host" is the only one that could ever provide you with an environment to survive, or thrive. The West seemingly will not allow anything resembling a meteor strike. Rather it would delay and absorp any change over as long a period as possible. I tend to believe that we're actually doing what people in history have always done, when they end up looking very silly and naive: succumbing heavily to recency bias. Evolution and History will eventually have it's way.

Human identities and the makings of relationships are not the shallow constructs we have learned to consider them as. A flag and a brand do not show you what is inside. Convenience is forgettable if there is something more personal at stake, any half-decent alternative will do. It's the organisations who know what that means who will come good. I can't help but think, in a quasi-manic hyperconnected way, that this ties in very neatly with what "AI" is going to give us, how it is best considered. And also the need for verified identities.

From the moment the web arrived, I prized anonymity, and never paid a subscription. Twenty years later - I see the limits of that approach as fundamental to why the web has turned out to be such a terrible, traumatic, unsatisfying experience. In that one instance, it was clear to me, that they'll steal your identity and tell you what it means to be you. What you can have, as well as what turns you on.

Hence I am actually excited about a future where I can demonstrate my identity as my "property", harness that in ways that will satisfy me. And that will include paying for services that work better for me.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#210
post #46

I went to Amazon without an ad blocker for the first time yesterday (wanted to try the fakespot service, but it requires an extension and "access all" so I created a clean profile for it). I was surprised how many ads there were on Amazon, I thought the situation was already bad with an ad blocker, considering they show a lot of hard-coded ads, but wow.

I am generally getting overwhelmed with ads coming from every nook and cranny of life to the point that I don't even want to buy stuff anymore, for a lot of it its like: whats the point?

Physical retail had grown on me lately. It's usually faster to go in, get what I need, and make it home. Especially for commodity household items.
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