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Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

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41–50 of 66 posts

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#41
post #3

The insinuation is that someone from the media giants signaled FBI that it is time to take these people down. Not saying it is impossible but how would that work? Would they go through a Congressman by paying them? Is there a number you call and can set a bounty for a particular investigation like "investigate this and if you prosecute successfully you get $100k bonus"

If it happened, it was could be the all the ex-RIAA lawyers the Oboma administration put into the DoJ having dinner with their ex-chronies at the RIAA. Over a few drink, they all talk about how crappy MU is. Next day in the DoJ offices, a few calls go out to the FBI. Cronyism is powerful, and there are a LOT of ex-entertainment folks in the government (and probably some government folks who want to get into the entertainment industry who are more than willing to do favors and pull strings).

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#42

I think this is reaching quite a bit. The service is not revolutionary or going to "disrupt the music industry" because this is exactly what Grooveshark offer now to independent artists[0]. Grooveshark are of questionable legality and use this model, yet they have not been shut down and they would be an "easy target" if the "corporations" can take down Mega upload. The only value Megaupload has over Grooveshark (and…

>Grooveshark are of questionable legality and use this model, yet they have not been shut down Except they're being sued by every single major label - and some internal emails from them are pretty damning. Same case as it is with Megaupload.

And I think that this is the point where a logical person who is somewhat "internet savvy" can deduce for himself why Megaupload and Grooveshark - while both profiting from IP which they do not own - cannot be, at least morally, judged the same way. The way I see it, Grooveshark is a service that is basically trying to force or at least demonstrate to the music industry what it is exactly that people want in an online music service. I am certain that in a bizzaro worlds where music executives have actual working brains they would see it and would offer "legality" to grooveshark without pricing them out of existence. In a world without piracy grooveshark would thrive.

Megaupload on the other hand is a company whose sole purpose it to assist pirates. Without piracy there is no reason for the existence of such a service (and before anyone yells "dropbox!", I don't think I need to explain why these two services are very different).

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#43
post #30

Note: please read this all the way through before down/up voting. I'm not defending any actors here, I'm just trying to present an "all sides considered" view of the situation. I think there's a fair amount of "projecting" going on here. More and more, I see the intellectual property discussion being couched in the language of "looters, moochers, and parasites" (aptly borrowing from Ayn Rand). It's undeniable that th…

"Those with an objectivist viewpoint won't be able to see this scenario in any other way." What? The Objectivist viewpoint is exactly opposite to what you say. Intellectual property is property (Hank Rearden's steel formula was his and his alone, John Galt's engine is his and his ideas are his property) and strong intellectual property rights enforcement are natural rights of their holders, just like ownership of tan…

Interesting comments, and well thought out.

Yet, since you bring up Hank Rearden's formula, let's remember that Atlas Shrugged explicitly acknowledged that Rearden was leading a team of scientists and engineers. He was not a solo inventor. Even that team stood on the shoulder of giants, it would have not gotten so far had not previous generations invented steel on which it was based not to mention the metalurgical advances since then that helped.

Also, IP rights are not natural rights. It is hard to find any hint of the idea before Mary I in 1557 and they did not take a form that modern viewers would even recognize until the Statute of Anne in 1709.

And as for "prey[ing] on the creation of others", it might depend on what you mean by that. Almost all of Disney's Masterpieces were based on previous work for which they paid nothing. For that matter, much of Shakespeare's work is based on still earlier works. If IP rights are not limited in time and scope, many of these works would never have been created.

I personally think that an IP rights regime is vital to protecting our creators, but it is not a natural right in the way that owning a physical item is, and I think history has proven that it must be limited in both time and scope if we are to continue creating freely.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#44
post #3

The insinuation is that someone from the media giants signaled FBI that it is time to take these people down. Not saying it is impossible but how would that work? Would they go through a Congressman by paying them? Is there a number you call and can set a bounty for a particular investigation like "investigate this and if you prosecute successfully you get $100k bonus"

[deleted]

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#46
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shutdown of MegaUpload was the result of an FBI investigation that took place over the last two years. The idea that an international legal case with multiple extradition arrangements was motivated mostly by a music service launched a month ago is hard to swallow and distracts from the serious debate around online piracy and the future of copyright.

Fully five top DOJ officials are former RIAA lawyers. You think they will treat MegaUpload in a "fair and balanced" way? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/04/obama-taps-fift/

I was not aware of that...but then I'm not surprised.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#47
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Grooveshark are of questionable legality and use this model, yet they have not been shut down Except they're being sued by every single major label - and some internal emails from them are pretty damning. Same case as it is with Megaupload.

And I think that this is the point where a logical person who is somewhat "internet savvy" can deduce for himself why Megaupload and Grooveshark - while both profiting from IP which they do not own - cannot be, at least morally, judged the same way. The way I see it, Grooveshark is a service that is basically trying to force or at least demonstrate to the music industry what it is exactly that people want in an onlin…

"Megaupload on the other hand is a company whose sole purpose it to assist pirates."

This is not true. While pirates may have been a large share of their customers, many people also used the service to transfer files that are too large to be sent through e-mail, or spread their own content which they've created themselves and chosen to distribute for free.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#48

Note: please read this all the way through before down/up voting. I'm not defending any actors here, I'm just trying to present an "all sides considered" view of the situation. I think there's a fair amount of "projecting" going on here. More and more, I see the intellectual property discussion being couched in the language of "looters, moochers, and parasites" (aptly borrowing from Ayn Rand). It's undeniable that th…

I'm an objectivist and I think this has nothing to do with the RIAA/MPAA. I think its just corrupt politicians flexing their muscles. They raid the MegaUpload people, charge them with a bunch of crimes[1] (that wouldn't stick in any legitimate court) and now all the competing services are in a panic. That panic means those competing services are easy to control.

But the real target is the public. You trot someone out, show off his fancy house and his fancy cars, and you go a long way to sell in the media the idea that these people are like drug lords-- making a lot of money doing something criminal.

Yet, I'm not aware of megaupload doing anything criminal. (I do believe that IP is legitimate, from a moral standpoint, but I don't consider the current IP laws to be consistent or moral.)

MegaUpload was a stand up citizen as far as I can see- they did occasionally host copyrighted content, and when they were made aware of it, they took it down. But as a digital-locker provider, it is not they who are morally responsible for the content of their service, but the people who put things in their digital lockers.

Raiding MegaUpload is like seizing every single house in Los Angeles because one of them was a crack den.

It makes no sense. I think the MPAA and RIAA don't really have any power, they're just organizations useful to the government.

This is all about government power, and the government wanting power over the singular medium of communication that it doesn't already control. You can't run a TV news station in the USA without being controlled by the FCC (and they exercise editorial control, though of course for obvious reasons this isn't made public in the news). Same goes for newspapers, etc. But on the internet, for now, you can say whatever you want.

SOPA/PIPA, et. al. are not at all about intellectual property. They're about control. That's why we're going to be seeing them re-introduced with different spins over and over until sometime we're all distracted by something else and they get passed.

This is how we got the PATRIOT ACT. That piece of legislation was sitting on the shelf waiting for 9/11. Well, the 9/11 "we can pass whatever we want so long as we call it terrorism related" age has passed. Both Bush and Obama were trying to pass SOPA type internet control under the guise of fighting terrorism, but they weren't able to do it.

So, they made an attempt with the claim that it was to fight "Piracy".

This claim is obviously bogus. But now a lot of the standard anti-IP types are going on a campaign against the RIAA and MPAA, having been riled up.... which means it might just be easier to pass the legislation to control the internet under some other guise.... maybe attached to the next debt ceiling bill perhaps.

I'm not interested, and not going, to engage in a debate about whether the concept of "Intellectual Property" has any moral legitimacy. I think its wholly irrelevant to this discussion.

This issue is, as with almost everything the government does, all about control. Piracy, or "terrorism", are only excuses to try and get us to accept their grabbing of more power.

[1] Specifically here I mean "Money Laundering", which I've read a legal opinion that says is written in such a way that they can make it stick to anybody, and that this is its purpose. Its the catch all law so that they can always convict. Basically, if you get your paycheck deposited in your checking account, you move some money to your savings account, then you later go and buy something with a credit card, and then pay your credit card bill from the savings account, you've engaged in "money laundering". Apparently the law is completely subjective.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#49
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shutdown of MegaUpload was the result of an FBI investigation that took place over the last two years. The idea that an international legal case with multiple extradition arrangements was motivated mostly by a music service launched a month ago is hard to swallow and distracts from the serious debate around online piracy and the future of copyright.

Fully five top DOJ officials are former RIAA lawyers. You think they will treat MegaUpload in a "fair and balanced" way? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/04/obama-taps-fift/

It depends. Attorneys and lawyers can and do take cases representing opposing sides all the time (from one case to the next). It's pretty much a requirement they be able to represent their employer (without personal bias, etc.) It's what allows them to defend indefensible people like, say, murderers --it's not that the lawyer believes in murder, but they are paid by someone to represent the murderer, for example.

So, unless we think they are acting as moles in the DoJ, I don't see much issue with it, unless they have a conflict of interest such as being an investor in the industry or the like.

Re: Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

#50
Egads! This a Tech Crunch article based on a Reddit post based on Google+ post. That Google+ post was also on HN last night so I'll just copy/paste my reply to that.

"This is stupid and wrong. The investigation into MegaUpload took two years. This post wants me to believe the US government convinced the New Zealand government to perform a 70+ person raid in two weeks? The government can't give authorization to someone to tie their shoe in under two weeks!

More importantly, this is an opinion piece with zero facts or evidence posted by a freaking high school student. Why in the hell is this nonsense being posted to HN?"

I know why this garbage is posted to Reddit and Tech Crunch, but HN is better than that.

Post reply on HN