Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

politicianmarket.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 154 posts

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#111

Post by david927 »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #81
david927 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that trying to emulate the [other] wealthiest countries is the best of goals. You don't have to mimic, but it does give a very strong indication that size of government isn't the problem. [Outlaw political campaign advertising is] just another way of saying "Throw out the 1st Amendment and outlaw freedom of speech". Nice try. No, this is "access to media." And currently it's controlled by the wealthy whe…

it does give a very strong indication that size of government isn't the problem Not necessarily. It may be that size of government is a problem, but those other countries have encountered a different bottleneck before reaching it. Nice try. No, this is "access to media." If you're saying that I won't be allowed to put up a billboard saying "Senator Smith is a rat", or take out a newspaper ad saying the same, then you…

Put up a billboard? No. Purchase access to mass media. There are only so many soap boxes and access is sold for money. You then get the situation where the one who has the most money can purchase all the soap boxes (again, ways to reach a mass audience). Their voice becomes the only one heard. Free speech is that you can say whatever you want (that doesn't change) -- but if you want access to the few seats of mass media to give political voice, if it's not regulated, it simply becomes the microphone of only the rich. Do you see?

Second, when you talk about "reducing government" what you mean is to shift it from the people to the private sector. Government is the people. That's the definition. It needs to be managed. But moving it to the private sector just makes it for-profit instead of non-profit, and opens up a whole new can of worms.

Again, look around. Countries with the highest standards of living are not struggling with this. Their large governments are not a problem, and in fact could be nicely argued to have provided that high standard of living.

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#112

Post by Vivtek »

bjnortier_hn wrote: post #48
andrewcooke wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that doesn't solve the real problem, though, which is that some entities are much more powerful than others. by removing the government, which can work as a (limited, imperfect) balance, you give other powerful institutions (ie big corporations) even more power. it won't be the government searching your laptop, it will be the airline, as part of a conglomerate that includes media companies. government exists for a re…

The world is not a zero-sum game - you don't necessarily give corporations more power if you reduce the size of government. That power could be distributed to citizens. And removing the ability of corporations to influence laws can make them less powerful, not more.

The power could be distributed to citizens? And then, yeah, they'd need some kind of organization - an organization made of, by, and for them, for example - to exercise it for them. Now if only such an organization could be created! Perhaps we could hold a convention to define its basic operating principles?

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#113

Post by georgecmu »

toyg wrote: post #45
rrhm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps "plutocracy" would work. The root "ploutus" is the ancient greek word for "wealth".

Yeah, but that has already assumed negative connotations; you cannot use it for tongue-in-cheek jokes.

leptocracy: lepton[] + cracy

is exactly what you want and is an easy allusion to kleptocracy.

[] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_lepton

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#115

Post by babblefrog »

david927 wrote: post #54
scottdw2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Government is force. Airlines, like most businesses, are subject to market forces. If Delta said "we have to search the data on your computer before you can fly", you can choose not to fly. Someone would have a strong incentive to provide a mode of travel that did not involve laptop searches. I didn't say "no government". I said "small government". There's a difference. You need the force of government to protect…

businesses are subject to market forces Markets are inefficient. Many products and services are inelastic. People will consume them while hating the companies that provide them. It was government, not market forces, that forced companies to stop making kids pajamas out of inflammable material. When people heard that Ford was letting people die in its Pinto rather than recall them because it was cheaper, did people st…

> The plain fact is that if you look at the richest countries in the world, with the best standards of living, they have huge governments that provide their citizens with a host of services without profit, such as healthcare.

You seem to be trying to imply a cause and effect relationship here, without actually saying that. I'm sure we can find examples of rich countries with small governments, and poor countries with large governments.

Also, for rich countries with large governments, which came first? Did they become rich, then grow large governments, or did they get a large government, and then become rich? I would guess that the former is more typical than the latter.

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#116

Post by nerfhammer »

kbutler wrote: post #79
tomkin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about small government vs. large government when it should be about good government , regardless of size.

"That government is best which governs least." -- attr. Thomas Jefferson

I've never understood the citation of proverb in lieue of argument

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#118

Post by cipherpunk »

un1xl0ser wrote: post #36

I was hoping for assassination politics, but this was amusing. Maybe I'm a bit thick, but this couldn't be legal, could it?

Haha, I came here to post the exact same thing. For those that don't know: http://technoanimal.net./ap.html

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#119

Post by rgarcia »

scott_s wrote: post #105

I'm going to crib from my own post from two days ago: Donations don't literally buy votes, but what they do literally buy is face time. That is, people in Congress will hold fundraisers, and lobbyists pay to attend those fundraisers. The understanding is that the lobbyists who attend those fundraisers will have time to talk to the politician about the issues their clients care about. This episode of Planet Money clea…

I don't understand your point--wouldn't public financing of elections remove the need to hold fundraisers?

The problem as I see it is that representatives are forced (due to the exorbitant cost of campaigning) to win over wealthy interests. This manifests itself as what we've seen with the whole SOPA debacle: representatives who are completely out of touch with their constituents.

Re: Show HN: I'm tired of corrupt US politicians, so I created this

#120

Post by scott_s »

rgarcia wrote: post #119
scott_s wrote: post #105

I'm going to crib from my own post from two days ago: Donations don't literally buy votes, but what they do literally buy is face time. That is, people in Congress will hold fundraisers, and lobbyists pay to attend those fundraisers. The understanding is that the lobbyists who attend those fundraisers will have time to talk to the politician about the issues their clients care about. This episode of Planet Money clea…

I don't understand your point--wouldn't public financing of elections remove the need to hold fundraisers? The problem as I see it is that representatives are forced (due to the exorbitant cost of campaigning) to win over wealthy interests. This manifests itself as what we've seen with the whole SOPA debacle: representatives who are completely out of touch with their constituents.

Public financing is one way, yes.

My point is that the site itself, and many people here, present a caricature of the problem. If you talk too much abou the caricature, someone may say "Oh, yes, I see, so let's do a better job of investigating and prosecuting people who buy and sell votes." The real problem is more sublte, and it is inherent in how the system works.

Post reply on HN