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Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

economist.com

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Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#241

Post by infamia »

yogthos wrote: post #210
infamia wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should not believe the CCP's self serving, feigned morality. If the UN and international norms were so important to the Chinese Communist Party, they would condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which they steadfastly refuse to do. All this despite endlessly lecturing everyone for decades about territorial integrity and internationally recognized borders. Where are those principles now? All of those high-minded th…

You should not believe the US regime's self serving, feigned morality. If the UN and international norms were so important to the US government, they would not have unilaterally invaded Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other countries murdering million of people. All this despite endlessly lecturing everyone for decades about rules based world order. Where are those principles now? All of those high-minded thoughts…

None of that excuses the CCP's hypocrisy ignoring Ukraine's territorial integrity, simply because they want to support Russia. I'm willing to say that the US was dead wrong in some (not all) of those situations.

Are you willing to say it is wrong for China to support Russia violating Ukraine's territorial integrity, and that they should condemn Russia without delay?

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#243

Post by yogthos »

midoridensha wrote: post #237
yogthos wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's complete and utter nonsense because US has formal relations with PRC and does not have formal relations with ROC.

Yet the US sells arms to Taiwan, sends politicians to visit, conducts freedom-of-navigation exercises in the strait, etc. "Formal relations" are meaningless, they're just lip service.

Yes, US does extraordinary levels of interference in China completely contrary to international law and accepted norms. This is something US would never accept done on its own territory. US simply does whatever it wants ignoring any and all international norms. And if people in US had a shred of decency then they would be horrified by the fact that their country behaves in this fashion.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#244

Post by yogthos »

infamia wrote: post #241
yogthos wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should not believe the US regime's self serving, feigned morality. If the UN and international norms were so important to the US government, they would not have unilaterally invaded Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other countries murdering million of people. All this despite endlessly lecturing everyone for decades about rules based world order. Where are those principles now? All of those high-minded thoughts…

None of that excuses the CCP's hypocrisy ignoring Ukraine's territorial integrity, simply because they want to support Russia. I'm willing to say that the US was dead wrong in some (not all) of those situations. Are you willing to say it is wrong for China to support Russia violating Ukraine's territorial integrity, and that they should condemn Russia without delay?

US has never been on the right side of history in the past half a century, and US is sure as hell not on the right side of history trying to start a war with China right now.

Why should China side with US over Ukraine's territorial integrity as US violates Chinese territorial integrity?

Furthermore, your entire position is incoherent here. Seems like when it comes to Taiwan you are supporting separatism, while when it comes to Ukraine you're supporting territorial integrity. Perhaps try and pick a lane first?

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#245

Post by yogthos »

midoridensha wrote: post #239
yogthos wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've repeatedly explained to you in this very thread, the position of the UN and vast majority of countries in the world is that Taiwan is a province of China. This is a simple fact, and it's frankly astounding that you keep trying to spin it as anything other.

It's astounding that you actually believe official positions.

It's astounding that you don't understand why international law exists.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#246

Post by Gibbon1 »

yogthos wrote: post #235
nl wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taiwan's legal standing is not in question [1]. Amusingly, reference [1] that you point at is arguing that Taiwan is an independent country (the opposite to what you are saying): > Hence, the restoration of Taiwan, Penghu, and all other appurtenant islands as an integral part of the ROC’s territory is without question legally binding. The ROC government and the majority of its people strongly disagree that Taiwan’s…

As I've repeatedly explained to you in this very thread, the position of the UN and vast majority of countries in the world is that Taiwan is a province of China. This is a simple fact, and it's frankly astounding that you keep trying to spin it as anything other.

Tell that to the native inhabitants of Taiwan.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#247

Post by midoridensha »

yogthos wrote: post #245
midoridensha wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's astounding that you actually believe official positions.

It's astounding that you don't understand why international law exists.

It's astounding that you believe international law actually means anything. If it did, Russia wouldn't be invading Ukraine.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#248

Post by jonnycomputer »

yogthos wrote: post #127
nl wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote one of the six assurances mentioned in your quote above: > 6. The United States would not formally recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

US State Department literally recognizes Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan, so does UN and practically every nation in the world.

I know that this is what the PRC line is, but it really is just not the case, no matter how many times it tries to say it is. US one-China policy does not, in of itself, take the position that the PRC should have control over Taiwan, nor does it take the position that mainland China should be controlled by the ROC. It is intentionally left ambiguous, and the US position has been consistent for fifty years.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#249

Post by postingawayonhn »

yrdmb wrote: post #234
postingawayonhn wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 95.5 percent of respondents were either “relatively satisfied” or “highly satisfied” with Beijing. Of course they are. They have no freedom of speech.

[flagged]

Per capita GDP in Taiwan is triple that of China. While average living standards have improved significantly in China there is a good argument to make that the CCP has held back GDP growth.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#250

Post by jonnycomputer »

tarkin2 wrote: post #136
yogthos wrote: post #31

The elephant in the room is that Taiwan is a Chinese province and Taiwan's legal standing is not in question [1]. This is the position held by the UN, and it's the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation [2] that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed. And here's what US State Department says on their o…

You're being disingenuous. Look at the articles mentioned in the quote. "Taiwan Relations Act, the three U.S.-China Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances". In particular: "The United States would not formally recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan"[1]. So the US supports a "One China policy", "does not support Taiwanese independence" and "does not formally recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan." And it wil…

Yes, the question of self-determination is almost always forgotten.
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