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The floppy disk just won’t die

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Re: The floppy disk just won’t die

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds awful in what way? Mechanically? Presumably if it sounded bad reproducing tapes you'd just use better electronics?

Using "better electronics" can't help you unless your idea of "better electronics" includes the actual tape mechanism being complained about. A few things are wrong with cheap mechanisms for playing cassette tapes e.g.: The tape speed should be precisely calibrated and, as much as possible, unvarying, instead it wobbles all over the place and is just roughly dialed in. On average the mech might say run 2% fast, but t…

So, "cheap and highly reliable" mechanically, but reliably not actually any good?

Re: The floppy disk just won’t die

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds awful in what way? Mechanically? Presumably if it sounded bad reproducing tapes you'd just use better electronics?

Any analog recording medium is 100% at the mercy of how much care went into the mechanics. The tape head is essentially a stethoscope in direct physical contact whith every other part in the machine, and even the table it's sitting on and your house and the world. Every part of it from the quality of the bearings or bushings, or lack of either just plastic parts rubbing directly on metal pins, the motor, gears, all o…

Sounds like what you're saying is that while the deck might be reliable, it's also just total cack?

Re: The floppy disk just won’t die

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any analog recording medium is 100% at the mercy of how much care went into the mechanics. The tape head is essentially a stethoscope in direct physical contact whith every other part in the machine, and even the table it's sitting on and your house and the world. Every part of it from the quality of the bearings or bushings, or lack of either just plastic parts rubbing directly on metal pins, the motor, gears, all o…

Sounds like what you're saying is that while the deck might be reliable, it's also just total cack?

Reliable is just an ambiguous word in this context because it only means certain aspects are reliable. Just because reliable is usually equated with good doesn't mean it actually means good in all contexts.

For instance a direct drive mechanism (gears instead of belts) with few moving parts and sloppy tolerances on those few parts will be will be highly reliable, in that it will run every time and run forever. "sloppy tolerances" is usually a bad thing but it also means it never gets stuck. This is in general not just a tape drive. But it's garbage for this application because a tape drive isn't a rock saw.

To make any kind of analog signal handler, the mechanical parts need super close tolerances, which means they more easily stick from dust, oxidation, or dried out sticky lubes, and has fragile elements like rubber belts and rollers that all age poorly and even suffer from normal use like getting glazed, and even suffer from not getting used, like rollers forming dents where contacting parts rest for too long, belts taking on the shape of a pully, sticking to the pully, etc. Basically even though the better mechanisn is much more expensive and does the most important job better, one thing it's not is more reliable in the way that a hammer is reliable. It's delicate and needs lots of care and maintenence, and that is not the result of poor engineering or manufacturing or quality.

Re: The floppy disk just won’t die

#55

I think of the situation with compact cassettes (audio) where you can get a refurbished deck from the 1990s for $300 or so on ebay that is better than any deck I ever owned. They are making new decks but since 2005 or so they all use the “tanashin mechanism” which is cheap and highly reliable (minimal moving parts!) but sounds awful. You can make the best recordings with Type 4 “metal” tapes but these have not been m…

> They are making new decks but since 2005 or so they all use the “tanashin mechanism” which is cheap and highly reliable (minimal moving parts!) but sounds awful. IIRC, the last big customer for cassette tapes was prisoners in the prison system, so "new" tape players are universally garbage (because priority 1 is complying with prison regulations, priority 2 is being as cheap as possible, and priority 3 is having ni…

People are making players today, this one is hipsterish and better than some (stereo not mono)

https://www.wearerewind.com/en-us

But “crème de le crème” doesn’t apply here in that the wow and flutter on an old Sony Walkman is much less.

Re: The floppy disk just won’t die

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, hard drive seeking noise used to feel something like the heartbeat of the computer. When it went silent and all you heard was fans you knew something was up and a force reboot was likely in your near future. I don't really miss it all that much though, mainly because HD noise could range anywhere from barely audible clicks and whirrs all the way up to an angry animal of some sort, with most drives leaning…

I've had several hard drives fail over the years. They all signalled their impending doom by making interesting noises so I never lost any data. When my SSD fails I think I'm going to miss the noises.

I've worked with lots of (enterprisy) hard drives and SSDs. The hard drive failure rate was easily 10x the rate of the SSDs, but the SSDs basically never gave symptoms of impending doom. They just disappeared from the data channel. We did have one group of drives that gave symptoms... 50% of the batch dropped dead within 2 weeks of entering service, a good number failed over the time it took to get the rest of them replaced. And one drive that had very poor throughput for several minutes did show SMART metrics that it was reallocating sectors, but we took it as a sign of death and replaced it; I think it might have worked fine once it calmed down, but we'll never know.

Re: The floppy disk just won’t die

#59
post #58

Is there a company that refurbished floppy disks? I've got maybe 50 of them and wouldn't mind giving them to some rodeo, or company that still needs them.

Yes. See this article: https://eyeondesign.aiga.org/we-spoke-with-the-last-person-s...

TLDR; there's one company left selling ( and reselling floppies).

And, yes, if you have old floppies in good condition you can donate them.

Re: The floppy disk just won’t die

#60

I think of the situation with compact cassettes (audio) where you can get a refurbished deck from the 1990s for $300 or so on ebay that is better than any deck I ever owned. They are making new decks but since 2005 or so they all use the “tanashin mechanism” which is cheap and highly reliable (minimal moving parts!) but sounds awful. You can make the best recordings with Type 4 “metal” tapes but these have not been m…

Sounds awful in what way? Mechanically? Presumably if it sounded bad reproducing tapes you'd just use better electronics?

The motors are often knockoffs and the gears are cheap and mostly plastic which lead to sloppy fit which leads to playing at the wrong speed and variations in speed which They also often are only mono tape heads instead of stereo. Check out techmoan and vwestlife on youtube as they have done better jobs than me of explaining the issues.
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