In France we have a state backed association which gets money from taxes then builds new buildings in prioritary zones so that not so rich not so poor people can still afford proper renting inside big cities. Thats why I can rent 126m2 for 1900€ a month which is cheap. counterpart: I live in a « shitty neighbour » but it ends up multicultural and i feel safe, my wife ultra close to her job. I think the state needs to enforce building construction/rénovation. same for buying, in france i can get VAT 5.5 instead of 20 in prioraty zone and also 100k free mortgage. all combined i did buy @4500€ per m2 in close suburb instead of 10k. priority zone ? well then they juste build a brand new school with a small forest on top of it. in this case i agree. paying taxes ( prices are for Paris, i have no clue how it works in USA)
Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
871–880 of 1001 posts
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#872Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't mean to be blunt, but if modest homes in your area are $1m, then you are in a VERY high-cost-of-living area and what you see here is not at all typical of the rest of the country. Where I live, a charming 1200sqft starter home in a blue collar neighborhood goes for $150-$200k.
Great, if only there were adequate jobs in those places, so we could all own homes without needing $300K annual family income. The dissonance comes from the fact that a lot of hackernews readers make apparently high incomes, but the cost of living in their areas keeps them squarely working class. The best example I can give is in the Bay Area. I lucked out with $2850/month to rent a 1400 square foot house in San Lean…
Don’t you think the amount of remote work has changed that?
I think part of the problem is the presumed loss aversion of moving from a $300k salary to, say, a $175k one that is remote but allows for a better standard of living (particularly for families).
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#873Home equity is the largest retirement asset of most americans. Far greater than 401ks, savings, etc. Even if it was a mistake, there is no turning back now with millions of baby boomers set to retire and tap into their retirement assets.
i aint givin up mah slaves
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#874Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> The reason that I think the Bay Area and other tech hubs are so expensive is that asians with PHDs who fly in for their $500k/year machine learning tech job want to live around other asians. They do not want to live in rural Utah where you can get a nice house for $200k and remote work, but there are no asians around and there's probably more discrimination. You can probably safely extrapolate that to all races who…
[deleted]
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#875Earlier quoted context omitted.
Federalized zoning rules. Congress has the authority. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JPNCPIHOUAINMEI
One size fits all zoning regulations for rural Montana, Manhattan and the suburbs of Los Angeles.
What is substantively different about any of these places that require different zoning laws? Do you think someone is just going to build a mega skyscraper in rural Montana because they can?
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#876Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a new immigrant to the US, and housing is my single biggest worry together with my work visa. Our household income is north of 300k, but housing still seems unaffordable. It might sound like whining, but we only achieve this level of income recently, so our lifelong savings are in the low 6 figures. We got no assets or property abroad, and no family that can help us to get in the property ladder. Even old, basic…
> I spend an inordinate amount of mental energy calculating how we can jump into the property ladder as quickly and safely as possible You buy a cheap house far away from where you work, and rent it to someone. Let them pay your mortgage and before you know it, you've got enough equity to put towards another house. Rinse and repeat.
Is this path still actually viable for HCOL areas?
I remember having a conversation with a real estate developer in SF in 2021. They said that this used to be the path to owning in places like SF, but that it’s no longer a viable option.
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#877The only realistic way to make housing or property in general a bad investment and leave it as shelter is to control credit. First investment property (i.e. not a primary residence or PPOR) max loan to value ratio (LVR) 80%, second investment property 50%, third + no credit.
There was a reason why in Australia for example that housing prices were pretty flat for a 100 years and only took off after late 1980's following financial deregulation of banks.
It would be great of course if we didn't centrally plan and set the most important price (the price of money i.e. the interest rates) via fiat. It should be set by the market i.e. the demand for money (borrowing) and supply (savings). But governments will never let go of that power so it is not realistic.
Maybe after this round of global recession / depression with property price crashes we will do the first step.
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#878Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can, just move out of Capitol Hill in Seattle which is one of the most desirable areas in one of the most desirable cities located in one of the most desirable geographies in the wealthiest country on earth. This place looks nice! https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2742-Lincoln-St-NE-Minnea...
I can afford to live in Seattle because I make more than a head chef. I would like my city to be affordable to head chefs, since I have friends who are. Seattle is a very nice place and I would like it to be easier for my friends to live here and not be forced to move away, since it makes the city worse and I'd rather the city become an even more desirable place in years to come.
Push for relaxing zoning laws, there was a bill in WA legislature this year which would help, I think this one.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=1110&Initiativ...
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#879Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't mean to be blunt, but if modest homes in your area are $1m, then you are in a VERY high-cost-of-living area and what you see here is not at all typical of the rest of the country. Where I live, a charming 1200sqft starter home in a blue collar neighborhood goes for $150-$200k.
[flagged]
same issue with my chinese wife alltough she doesnt has a PHD… We could work in lovely amazing places in france but we have to stay in the capital. yet with time it changes…
actually they (the asian you say) would face less discrimination but they just dont know it so they could be also racist by themselve (english is not my best, just trying to explain, of course they are not racist)
I see this in my street, 2 kebabs, one filled with black arabs with hallal meat, the other one being « american organic kebbab » and filled only by 35+ white people. it saddens me because ignorant me was thinking people will mix together at lunch…
Re: Maybe treating housing as an investment was a mistake
#880I think there are some factors missing in this piece: 1. Values go up because of density changes related to location desirability. My house is more valuable because more people want to live here, but space is finite. This should lead to it being worthwhile to pay me to leave so an apartment complex can replace the single family homes on my block. But it's more likely that someone will pay a lot to have the single fam…
> Not being adjacent to a major urban area is in many respects like going back in time some proportion to your distance from one. This whole conversation devolves into this single point, in my opinion. There is land out there that is cheap as fuck-all. Lots of places will flat out hand you the deed if you promise to live there and build a house. Some places will subsidize you moving into a house for $1. You just have…
The rural part doesn't explain why housing in places like Tokyo has not increased despite population increase, or why dense metro area used to be affordable.
We need to fix the root problem. There are people getting priced out of places they grew up in because of bad housing policy. Start with the zoning laws.