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Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

economist.com

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Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#81

Post by yogthos »

Dr_Birdbrain wrote: post #69
yogthos wrote: post #31

The elephant in the room is that Taiwan is a Chinese province and Taiwan's legal standing is not in question [1]. This is the position held by the UN, and it's the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation [2] that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed. And here's what US State Department says on their o…

You might be interested to know that the status of the sovereignty of Ukraine was not in question at any point right up until the very second that Putin said the Kyiv government was a Nazi government, and invaded. Russia itself was a signatory to the accord that guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine, yet here we are.

And this has what to do with US interfering in the politics a Chinese province again?

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#82

Post by simplotek »

ninethirty wrote: post #58

If China does invade, then it seems likely that North Korea would also invade SK, forcing the US to fight on at least 2-fronts, or 3 depending on what Russia is doing. If I was rich I'd move to Buenos Aires, the Paris of South America, and wait this thing out.

> If China does invade, then it seems likely that North Korea would also invade SK, forcing the US to fight on at least 2-fronts, or 3 depending on what Russia is doing.

You mean just like what the US did during the 90s and 2000s?

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#83

Post by cwkoss »

inconceivable wrote: post #66

does anyone know of a betting/futures market where one can put a wager on this happening or not by a certain date? the rhetoric in the west has gotten so intense in this area that i'm feeling like talking about it online is pointless - i'd rather put my money down.

Found: https://insightprediction.com/m/162/will-there-be-an-armed-c...

no depth, and unavailable to US people

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#84

Post by yogthos »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #68
yogthos wrote: post #31

The elephant in the room is that Taiwan is a Chinese province and Taiwan's legal standing is not in question [1]. This is the position held by the UN, and it's the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation [2] that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed. And here's what US State Department says on their o…

> The elephant in the room is that Taiwan is a Chinese province and Taiwan's legal standing is not in question [1]. I believe you haven't read the link you yourself posted.

I believe one of us didn't. Also, maybe keep reading the statement from US State Department until you comprehend it.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#85

Post by DennisP »

aseerdbnarng wrote: post #57

While the Chinese threat to Taiwan is not something to be dismissed completely, the article doesn’t mention just how incredibly vulnerable China is to possible sanctions targeting their food supply. China imports most of its food and as their farmland is quite poor, its hugely dependent on fertiliser to feed itself. Sanctions targeting these basics would be devastating so I really struggle to see a convincing case fo…

Also they import about 90% of their oil.

They probably assumed that sanctions would not be all that severe, given their pivotal position in the world economy. Perhaps they'll reconsider after seeing the level of sanctions against Russia.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#86

Post by epolanski »

bena wrote: post #50
it_citizen wrote: post #20

I am curious what the dominant opinion is in China regarding what the population of Taiwan wants. That the majority of Taiwanese want to become Chinese? That it doesn’t matter what the Taiwan population wants because China has the right to claim it?

The dominant opinion of the people of China or of the government of China? I would say that the majority of the people of China are much like the majority of the people of any land, they don't directly care about the issue. Someone on the other side of the country in Karamay probably doesn't even think about Taiwan for most of their days. However, according to the government of China, Taiwan is an island occupied by…

> However, according to the government of China, Taiwan is an island occupied by a rogue government, the last remnants of the losing side of a Civil War.

I mean, it's not an opinion, it's a fact of how things went.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#87

Post by zucker42 »

dwohnitmok wrote: post #19
jmclnx wrote: post #3

All they need to do is look at what happened in Hong Kong. If China did not do what they did in Hong Kong, Taiwan may be headed to some kind on unification. Now, they would be crazy to even entertain that thought. This issue lies directly on China and no one else. If I had a say in Taiwan, I would announce it is now a independent Country.

The Taiwanese concept of "unification" is not what you're thinking of. The Taiwanese faction supporting unification (usually the KMT) does not envision a world where Taiwan is/becomes a province of the PRC, they envision a world where the ROC governs all current PRC provinces, that is where they are in the seat of power in Beijing. I.e. this is something going in the opposite direction. The opposing faction rejects t…

> they envision a world where the ROC governs all current PRC provinces

Is this really true? Sure, recapturing the mainland was the ideology of the KMT at the end of the Chinese Civil War, but KMT politicians would have to be extremely delusional to believe it's possible now. My understanding is that the modern KMT believes in increased economic integration with China and the maintenance of Chinese cultural idenity, while leaving the door open to future reunification under favorable political circumstances. The KMT is definitely considered the "pro-Beijing" major Taiwanese party in the 21st century.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#88

Post by uniqueuid »

epolanski wrote: post #53
jmclnx wrote: post #3

All they need to do is look at what happened in Hong Kong. If China did not do what they did in Hong Kong, Taiwan may be headed to some kind on unification. Now, they would be crazy to even entertain that thought. This issue lies directly on China and no one else. If I had a say in Taiwan, I would announce it is now a independent Country.

Hong Kong was leased to Britain till 1997. Very different case. As for Taiwan, if they declared independence it will be an act of war. Don't forget that US protects Taiwan on the basis it does not declare itself a sovereign country. Also, don't forget this is the official map of the Republic of China (Taiwan): https://i.redd.it/jbyegko5mkc21.jpg

While these facts are important, they sound like Taiwan is unequivocally part of the PRC. But that's probably not what people in Taiwan or many western nations would say.

- Taiwan clearly has the outward appearance of a full-fledged nation

- There are (few) countries that have recognized it as a sovereign nation

- Taiwan maintains some form of diplomatic relations, and Nancy Pelosi's recent visit was a very public sign of that

- Taiwan and the PRC have been at war in the past

Some might take this to say that the official status is contested.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#89

Post by NicoJuicy »

yrdmb wrote: post #72
stale2002 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about letting the chinese people in mainland china and taiwan decide the matter for themselves. Taiwan currently has decided for themselves that they are happy to accept military weapons from the US, to defend themselves in the case of any military action against them from China. If that is Taiwan's decision, they should be supported and allowed to make it.

[flagged]

Not willing to be force reunited with a country doesn't make them a vessel for another.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#90

Post by yogthos »

100pctremote wrote: post #71
yogthos wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Texas and Taiwan share very little in common in terms of history as political states and entities in the world economic system. It's a strange analogy you're asking us to make with negligible equivalencies.

What Texas and Taiwan share is that they're both territories of sovereign nations. US has no business interfering in the internal politics of other countries. It's that simple.

US State Department acknowledges that Taiwan is par of China in black and white:

    The United States approach to Taiwan has remained consistent across decades and administrations.
    The United States has a longstanding one China policy**, which is guided by the Taiwan Relations Act,
    the three U.S.-China Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances.  We oppose any unilateral changes
    to the status quo from either side; we do not support Taiwan independence; and we expect cross-Strait
    differences to be resolved by peaceful means.
https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/
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