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Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

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Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#11

Post by spmurrayzzz »

omnibrain wrote: post #9
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

When I see low-code, I find myself looking for the Visual Basic of Web. If I could drag and drop a few pre-made controls (including a database control), double click to handle a few events, and have a CRUD app, I would be thrilled. Unfortunately, I still have not found that yet.

Coming from Delphi, I always think the same... You could check Budibase, I build a simple customer portal for one of our customers with it. Now I build a "real" project with Supabase for the backend and Vue.js + Quasar for the frontend. And that comes damn near this vision. Only a dragn'n'drop GUI editor is missing, but with the near zero reload-times of modern vue.js with Vite editing the GUI in code comes near. The…

> Only a dragn'n'drop GUI editor is missing

I've been giving Storybook[1] a shot to solve this problem. Works pretty well from scratch on new projects, but importing existing Vue components, especially from large third party component libraries, has proven a little onerous so far for me. But maybe you'll have a little more luck with Vue/Quasar.

[1] https://storybook.js.org/

Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#12

Post by claytongulick »

This is an extremely cool project, but after browsing the source code a bit, it looks like it's badly in need of modernization.

CSS is Bootstrap 3.

The docs reference Web Components, and I do see the use of customElements.define() so (I think?) it's using "real" Web Components technologies, but the code is indecipherable to me:

  var n = t.getAttribute('name') || '';
  if (!n)
   return;

  var p = t.getAttribute(T_PATH) || 'null';
  var c = t.getAttribute(T_CONFIG) || 'null';
  var d = t.getAttribute(T_DEFAULT) || '';
  var s = '__';

  var meta = n + s + p + s + c + (d ? (s + d) : '');
  t.$jcwebcomponent = true;

  compilecomponent(meta, t);
Note, this isn't the minified version, it's straight from jc.js, not jc.min.js.

Looking through it, most of the code is like this, and there's liberal use of "var". This isn't a cherrypicked example. It looks like it was originally written about six years ago, and I see active commits, so it's really confusing to me why the code base would be in such rough shape.

The components implementation is very pythonic - it passes "self" around to decorate with functions, it doesn't look like it's been modernized to use classes.

From a features standpoint, the project is very cool. My concern with choosing to use it in a production app is the enormous amount of very obvious technical debt that I'm seeing.

At some point, this will either need a major overhaul and rewrite (an extraordinary effort for a project this size), a dual-implementation support (like react and a few others did, with class based and functional APIs both supported) and a long, slow reimplementation path, or a decay into obsolescence as the core frameworks becomes hopelessly outdated and difficult to maintain.

That's a really difficult technical position to be in, and I sympathize with the challenge ahead. Clearly there are very talented developers working on this project, I'm looking forward to seeing how they solve these issues moving forward.

Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#13

Post by Multrex »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

When I see low-code, I find myself looking for the Visual Basic of Web. If I could drag and drop a few pre-made controls (including a database control), double click to handle a few events, and have a CRUD app, I would be thrilled. Unfortunately, I still have not found that yet.

Try OpenBlocks. I think is the most promising and fast developing low code tool. Better than appsmith, tooljet.

https://openblocks.dev/

Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#14

Post by petersirka »

claytongulick wrote: post #12

This is an extremely cool project, but after browsing the source code a bit, it looks like it's badly in need of modernization. CSS is Bootstrap 3. The docs reference Web Components, and I do see the use of customElements.define() so (I think?) it's using "real" Web Components technologies, but the code is indecipherable to me: var n = t.getAttribute('name') || ''; if (!n) return; var p = t.getAttribute(T_PATH) || 'n…

The code isn't terrible, but it's not clear to you because you don't have the necessary information. The Total.js UI library (jComponent) is now 50% backward compatible with the UI library that you opened in 2014! You must know that we want to keep long-term backward compatibility. It's not a 100% nice code and of course, we will release a new version v20 (of UI library) this or next year cleared from the older code. We must offer stable tools for development, and that's critical for us and our customers.

This platform has been developed for around 10 years, and it isn't easy, but we will keep doing this since it is our hobby.

Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#15

Post by kowlo »

petersirka wrote: post #6
detrites wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What differentiates Total.js Flow from Node-RED? Were there frustrations with Node-RED that it was felt were best solved starting over? At a glance it looks good, but unclear why one would switch.

- multithreading - better design collected from our Web components https://componentator.com - without third party dependencies (in the core) - online chat support with authors and contributors ( https://t.me/totaljs ) - a lot of (open source) helpers like UI Builder - https://uibuilder.totaljs.com (released soon), Total DB - https://github.com/totaljs/totaldb (released soon), OpenMail, OpenTemplates, OpenAuth, etc..

- multithreading

- better design collected from our Web components https://componentator.com

- without third party dependencies (in the core)

- online chat support with authors and contributors (https://t.me/totaljs)

A lot of (open source) helpers like

- UI Builder https://uibuilder.totaljs.com (released soon),

- Total DB https://github.com/totaljs/totaldb (released soon),

- OpenMail, OpenTemplates, OpenAuth, etc..

Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#16

Post by devrand »

claytongulick wrote: post #12

This is an extremely cool project, but after browsing the source code a bit, it looks like it's badly in need of modernization. CSS is Bootstrap 3. The docs reference Web Components, and I do see the use of customElements.define() so (I think?) it's using "real" Web Components technologies, but the code is indecipherable to me: var n = t.getAttribute('name') || ''; if (!n) return; var p = t.getAttribute(T_PATH) || 'n…

Why can't code just be old? If it's stable, sustainable, and able to deliver on customer needs, then who cares? The only benefit at that point be to prevent people nitpicking that their code uses "var".

Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#18

Post by tluyben2 »

Multrex wrote: post #13
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

When I see low-code, I find myself looking for the Visual Basic of Web. If I could drag and drop a few pre-made controls (including a database control), double click to handle a few events, and have a CRUD app, I would be thrilled. Unfortunately, I still have not found that yet.

Try OpenBlocks. I think is the most promising and fast developing low code tool. Better than appsmith, tooljet. https://openblocks.dev/

Is this related to Illa somehow? The UI builder looks very familiar.

Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#19

Post by michaelteter »

To use this service, you check to agree to terms which include this:

"By posting Content to the Service, you grant us the right and license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Content on and through the Service. You retain any and all of your rights to any Content you submit, post or display on or through the Service and you are responsible for protecting those rights. You agree that this license includes the right for us to make your Content available to other users of the Service, who may also use your Content subject to these Terms. You represent and warrant that: (i) the Content is yours (you own it) or you have the right to use it and grant us the rights and license as provided in these Terms, and (ii) the posting of your Content on or through the Service does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person."

If I read this correctly, it is saying that our IP and content we provide (config, nodes, data, etc.) still belongs to us, but they can also use it however they want.

Doesn't this seem a bit extreme? It seems like it could mean zero privacy of the work we do (content added).

Re: Show HN: Total.js – Low-code development (Node-RED alternative)

#20

Post by emmelaich »

kowlo wrote: post #15
petersirka wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- multithreading - better design collected from our Web components https://componentator.com - without third party dependencies (in the core) - online chat support with authors and contributors ( https://t.me/totaljs ) - a lot of (open source) helpers like UI Builder - https://uibuilder.totaljs.com (released soon), Total DB - https://github.com/totaljs/totaldb (released soon), OpenMail, OpenTemplates, OpenAuth, etc..

- multithreading - better design collected from our Web components https://componentator.com - without third party dependencies (in the core) - online chat support with authors and contributors ( https://t.me/totaljs ) A lot of (open source) helpers like - UI Builder https://uibuilder.totaljs.com (released soon), - Total DB https://github.com/totaljs/totaldb (released soon), - OpenMail, OpenTemplates, OpenAuth, etc..

It'd be nice for HN to support bulleted lists, so we could go for readability without using blank lines.
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