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Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

bbc.com

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Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#41

Post by naravara »

calt wrote: post #26
SeanLuke wrote: post #17

[dead]

What is the meaning of University, and why don't these old "universities" meet the criteria?

Western academia has a bias towards defining religious institutions out of consideration as true academia. You see this in philosophy departments too where philosophers love to argue that Eastern philosophy is "more religion than philosophy" even though that statement is basically begging a whole host of questions about what religion and philosophy even is.

Religion, as an element of society that is discrete from our understandings of just how stuff in the world works, is a conception that was pretty unique to Christian civilization (and specifically Protestantism at that) which became generalized due to Western European cultural and economic dominance.

Most other times and places just didn't view them as being all that distinct. Their religious traditions didn't insist on strict separations between worldly pursuits and spiritual ones and often didn't really separate the formal institutions from each other. Most people would just adopt bits and pieces of all the various intellectual traditions from the priests and monks, but they'd adapt them into their personal or family practices. Normal people today would not try and identify themselves as "deontologists" or "utilitarians" today. They pick these ideas up from the nerds and applied them to their lives, but it wasn't really important for them to identify as one or another the way we insist folks split hairs as to whether they're Christian or Buddhist or Taoist or whatever now. These were intense (and sometimes violent) arguments among the intelligentsia, but not so much outside of that.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#42

Post by steponlego »

shaan7 wrote: post #28
steponlego wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are you to judge them though? Seems like a colonizer’s attitude.

I am not in a position to judge them. I am asking _you_ why you believe religion is a good basis to define a country.

I’m a Christian, it’s right in our Bible. God divided the nations. For most of the history of nations, division along ethnic and religious lines wasn’t controversial and was in fact the default. You’ll find large numbers of Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and Buddhists among others who agree. Perhaps, the vast majority of all of them.

It might not sound that progressive but nobody ever told us what we’re progressing towards, that’s a whole separate problem though.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#44

Post by screye »

SeanLuke wrote: post #17

[dead]

> These were religious schools

In an era where all philosophy, sociology & science was Religion, it sounds fairly comprehensive. All universities were religious. The west simply like to treat universities by and for Christian denominations as somehow devoid of religion.

> Bologna was the first multi-subject, public higher degree-granting institution in history. It invented the term "University"

You can use this self-fulfilling characterization for any topic to establish faux-authoritativeness. See -->> Stand up comedy was invented in the US. Rakugo[1] may have been invented before, has a single performer who weaves an original story through comedic scenarios, but they don't stand up. And after all, if they aren't standing up, is it stand up at all ? The limitations of one institution give it identity, while the limitations of the other render if unworthy. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Nalanda was a university in the spirit of what it means for an institution to be a university.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakugo

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#45

Post by namaria »

calt wrote: post #26
SeanLuke wrote: post #17

[dead]

What is the meaning of University, and why don't these old "universities" meet the criteria?

It was common in medieval Europe to name civil associations as "Universal guilds". It just means it was The Guild for that trade at that city.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#46

Post by readthenotes1 »

I went to the university in Salamanca Spain, founded 1218.

There were a lot of old buildings, but nowhere was there a Salamanca U t-shirt as a souvenir (and FYI, the Rome University sweatshirts aren't official--the biz school sells some polos, but that's it).

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#47

Post by jltsiren »

SeanLuke wrote: post #17

[dead]

Medieval universities were in many ways similar to the higher education part of medieval madrasas. Both started as religious schools that expanded to teach a wide range of subjects. The difference is that the university tradition thrived because Europe prospered, while the madrasa tradition stagnated because the Islamic world fell behind.

The real question is a matter of definitions. Is a university a insitute of higher education that follows the university tradition? Or is it any institute with a similar role in the society, regardless of its traditions?

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#50

Post by cafed00d »

SeanLuke wrote: post #17

[dead]

If you're suggesting that the University of Bologna was secular (not religious) in the 11th century, then that is misleading.

> then hired scholars from the city's pre-existing lay and ecclesiastical schools to teach them subjects such as liberal arts, notarial law, theology, and ars dictaminis (scrivenery)

> The university is historically notable for its teaching of canon and civil law

Please note the phrases .. ecclesiastical schools .. & .. teaching of canon ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Bologna

It seems reasonable religion (as we define it today) & culture were intertwined to a far greater degree in 10th-15th century Europe in ways similar to Nalanda & Al-Qarawiyin in their times.

It does not seem simple to define exactly when all these institutions passed that rubicon that separates "religious schools" from what the word "university" means.

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