I wonder what types of RPS they are seeing that required a gossip based protocol to broadcast state around versus a more traditional data store. I take it that it’s far more important that the local region know about changes than a remote region, which makes a mastered store in one location as the source of truth problematic. I also wonder why these companies don’t backstop themselves on the public cloud? Failing int…
Reliability: It’s not great
71–80 of 476 posts
Re: Reliability: It’s not great
#72Fundamentally I think some of the problems come down to the difference between what Fly set out to build and what the market currently want. Fly (to my understanding) at its core is about edge compute. That is where they started and what the team are most excited about developing. It's a brilliant idea, they have the skills and expertise. They are going to be successful at it. However, at the same time the market is…
> generous free level of service, This is likely the biggest culprit for a lot of these companies. Too many of us have grown up in the culture of getting hosting and platform for "free", but at some point the companies providing it still have to pay the bills. There has to be a better pricing model that let's someone deploy their relatively small, low-traffic app for $10s/month or even $200 - $300 / year for the basi…
But our team, who has used Heroku for over a decade, got bit multiple times by Heroku having a free tier.
Why were we impacted by other apps? Because Heroku’s load balancers are shared amongst all their apps. That includes all the sketchy apps running on the platform.
If Heroku could somehow isolate us from everyone else? Great - and they offered that for awhile with a reasonably-priced Add-On supported by them called SSL Endpoint. It cost about $15/month and put us into a pool that was shared with other folks willing to spend that much per month to run their app.
I understand that’s not great for a hobby project. But for those of us trying to run a large product on Heroku and not have to spend multiple extra thousands of dollars every month for a Heroku Private Space, this was a great way of pooling: put a small fee in place for one pool of resources. Not many malware writers or other misbehaving app creators will probably want to spend that much per month.
But they axed that a few years ago. Only a couple months after when we were thrown back into the load balancer pool with all the other free apps, one of the IPs was marked as spam and we had to figure out a kind of janky solution.
Additionally, Heroku seemingly spent a ton of resources on free tier support, malware fighting, etc. I hope to see more features on Heroku since they’ve dropped that support… but I haven’t seen much evidence of that in roughly six months since they did that. But we’ll see.
Re: Reliability: It’s not great
#73I've been using Fly for over two years or so. The sentiment of this post doesn't align with my personal (anecdotal) experience. The PG issues hit me two times in the previous weeks but other than that it's been working great for me. With the move to v2 apps (using their new machines infra) things are actually faster and smoother than ever. About a year or so ago their CLI was quite buggy but I haven't really hit any…
The Fly.io of 2023 looks almost nothing like that of 2021 (all for the better), and it's not obvious to our users what's changed. We've been doing a shitty job of communicating, and we're taking our licks for it now.
Re: Reliability: It’s not great
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
The CloudFlare folks wrote a good blog post on how they are seeing their customers use Edge compute — latency is far down on the list: https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-workers-serverless-we...
The US CLOUD Act means a EU customer cannot use a US cloud provider to host PII, even if the server itself is physically in the EU, because US law will still compel the provider to yield the data to US authorities. The European Commission is trying to paper over the cracks with a fig leaf of judicial review, but it's only a matter of time until a Schrems III decision from the CJEU invalidates that polite fiction.
Re: Reliability: It’s not great
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Render.com is another spiritual successor of Heroku. I'd love a world where Fly and Render are both very successful companies.
Render has some great features like making a new sub domain for when a PR is opened so you can test it as a fully working API before you merge
Re: Reliability: It’s not great
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US CLOUD Act means a EU customer cannot use a US cloud provider to host PII, even if the server itself is physically in the EU, because US law will still compel the provider to yield the data to US authorities. The European Commission is trying to paper over the cracks with a fig leaf of judicial review, but it's only a matter of time until a Schrems III decision from the CJEU invalidates that polite fiction.
The amount of EU companies following this law is exactly 0.
Re: Reliability: It’s not great
#77It's been almost a year since I gave Fly a review ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31391116 ) and it's a bummer that they're still struggling to get things right. Double bummer because I love Phoenix and Elixir and they employ Chris McCord there. Maybe they were _too_ ambitious at the start? They have a hard road ahead of them, and competition like Render.com and Northflank have provided me with solutions to al…
I read your review, and had a question so I thought I'd follow up here. You mentioned render.com as a competitor - does render host its own infrastructure or do they act as a go-between between their users and AWS/GCP/whatever?
In March 2021, someone asked a question about carbon emissions of their data centres. They said they hosted on both GCP and AWS, but mentioned they were interested in moving to their own bare metal [1].
In April 2021, I asked a question about egress fees to Google, and they walked back a bit the comment about moving to bare metal [2].
As of March 2022, they're still in AWS/GCP [3].
As of September 2022, workloads for new users deploy into AWS, even in regions that were previously served by GCP [4].
[1]: https://community.render.com/t/does-render-use-green-energy/...
[2]: https://community.render.com/t/is-render-com-hosted-in-googl...
[3]: https://community.render.com/t/are-your-servers-owned-by-you...
[4]: https://community.render.com/t/which-render-regions-map-to-w...
Re: Reliability: It’s not great
#78And then I was “Huh, these technical challenges are actually pretty difficult”
And then I was all “crap, these are a bunch of technologies I was about to add to our stack”
Thanks heaps fly.io people; having the humility to honestly talk about the challenges and failures massively helps people such as myself as we navigate new unfamiliar technologies. If more companies were willing to do this, it’d be a lot easier to avoid common pitfalls.
Re: Reliability: It’s not great
#79Fundamentally I think some of the problems come down to the difference between what Fly set out to build and what the market currently want. Fly (to my understanding) at its core is about edge compute. That is where they started and what the team are most excited about developing. It's a brilliant idea, they have the skills and expertise. They are going to be successful at it. However, at the same time the market is…
If you offer data volumes, the low water mark is how EBS behaves. If you offer a really simple way to spin up Postgres databases, you are implicitly promising a fully managed experience.
And $deity forbid, if you want global CRUD with read-your-own-writes semantics, the yardstick people measure you against is Google's Spanner.