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Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

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21–30 of 157 posts

Re: Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

#21
> It is commonly thought to be futile to even try to make youngsters interested in computers – they simply don't yet have the required patience or concentration. There's no addictivity or instant gratification, nothing flashy or punk that fascinates the young mind. The appreciation and understanding of computers is something that develops slowly over years, often via gateway interests such as [...] pure mathematics. The kind of people who want to settle in a monastery and dedicate their lives to science or art may also develop an interest in computing.

This part is already true about the study of theoretical computer science today. People view algorithm design, big-O, proofs, recursion, automata, Turing machines, etc. as a chore.

Re: Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1 is really hard if computers are useful (why do you stop making something that's useful?), but step 3 is simply not believable: a society that has machines that could, at the minimum, help solving complex calculations and engineering problems much better than humans decides to completely ignore them. That's not how societies work.

Unless they have other means of solving those calculations better than computers; in that case, call those other means "computers" and the study of older computers "retro-computing".

something like the amish, relying on 100 year old technology developed by humans instead of those newfangled tools that aliens brought that no human can understand.

Re: Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

#23
Replace 'computers' with 'open source software' and you are something closer to an uncomfortable truth. Open source has been critical to the advancement of our world but people who go out of their way to use and encourage open source past the basics (even fdroid or Firefox not even getting to hardware and full software stacks) are treated as oddballs even by the tech community.

Re: Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

#25
I've watched over time as the desktop stopped being the primary computing device of choice for many people. I've grown far too accustomed to the power and flexibility of a nice keyboard and 32" monitor, and virtually endless storage and general purpose compute that I own to fall into that usage pattern, but I understand the appeal.

No Wednesday morning headaches from Microsoft, no applications breaking with the new Python revision, etc. Just apps from the app store that work (mostly).

So, the Server Farms that comprise the cloud aren't ancient, but they might as well be remote temples just like those we had in the 1960s.

Re: Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

#26

> Computers are seldom privately owned – they are considered essentially communal rather than personal This struck me as true of most people's use of computers now. Almost everyone I know who isn't either an old fashioned developer or a gamer uses a mobile phone or tablet merely as a graphical terminal; the actual computer is some mysterious entity elsewhere on the Net. The golden age of computing when 'everyone' had…

Likewise Gen Z and Alpha are not very technical. Many teens and 20 somethings have a hard time with seemingly basic tasks like finding files. As a 20 something myself, my public school did not offer any 'technical' courses beyond office programs and keyboarding.

Re: Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: for some reason, the world stops making computers, but keeps the ones that already exist Step 2: 100 years pass Step 3: computers are now an old (and dying) tradition, kept going only by a small group of people who understand how to care for the machines. Was that so hard?

Step 1 is really hard if computers are useful (why do you stop making something that's useful?), but step 3 is simply not believable: a society that has machines that could, at the minimum, help solving complex calculations and engineering problems much better than humans decides to completely ignore them. That's not how societies work.

Step 1 and 3 are, arguably, quite probable to happen in the future. I don't think you're appreciating just how many circular dependencies we have in the global supply chains. We're one big cataclysm or global war to reverting back to pre-industrial times, and if that were to happen, we'd likely be stuck there for quite a long time. Consider the following observations:

A. For obvious reasons, we continuously improve tooling and processes. This creates circular dependencies that make our civilization non-restartable.

As a toy example, imagine we made tool A, which let us create tool B, which let us, among other things, upgrade A to A'. A' can still produce B, but can also produce upgraded B'. B' obviously lets us make A'', but also C', and A'' + C' let us make B''. Rinse, repeat for a hundred years. The result is that the whole industry relies on tools A'''''''''' and B''''''''''. The hobbyists still play with A and B, maybe even A' and B', but there's nothing between A' and A'''''''''' in actual use or production, nor anyone who remembers their design, because they've all been made obsolete long ago. If the calamity hits, and we can no longer make new A'''''''''' and B'''''''''', we don't get to downgrade a step or two - we go back all the way to A' and B'. And all the other tools and technologies that also relied on our advanced capacity - they all stop working and go "back to beginning" in lock step.

B. Making and operating tools involves ever increasing energy use.

C. We've used up all easily-available high-density energy sources long ago. Both our renewable tech and our fossil fuel mining and combustion processes are A''''''''''-level tech.

With that in mind, it's not that big of a stretch to write a plausible backstory for a culture as described in the article.

Re: Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1 is really hard if computers are useful (why do you stop making something that's useful?), but step 3 is simply not believable: a society that has machines that could, at the minimum, help solving complex calculations and engineering problems much better than humans decides to completely ignore them. That's not how societies work.

1 is easy to imagine - a large enough collapse that making new ones is very very hard, especially compared to scrounging and repurposing the huge amount of existing ones. Imagine a huge population decline, and search parties looking through the ruins for useful tech, like computers, decades later. Such a society could probably make new computers, but the cost of making new, much worse specced computers, may not be co…

No it isn't (No1 easy to imagine). Computers are only useful because we have a stable society that we can build on. Post apocalyptic societies have zero practical use for computers.

Re: Inverted computer culture: A thought experiment

#30

All the comments here are so negative for such a beautiful essay! This paragraph at the end in particular really struck a chord with me: > In the real world, people associate computers with many different things: corporate dehumanization, overwhelming consumer capitalism, alienation from the material world, shortened attention spans, ridiculously short obsolescence cycles, etc. etc. It is often difficult to tell thes…

Strongly agree!

This post so wonderfully blends a hypothetical with where we really are, what computing has in fact become. Computiung is in fact vanishing, hidden inside massive data centers (temples) & behind firewalls. Applications offer packaged consumer experiences, but actual computing recedes, gets further off, & few people experience it. Real connection to computing is slow & takes concentration & will to develop; it's not fast.

This project to invert common conceptions actually reveals a lot of truth.

The final summation is great.

> So, what is the "essence" of computing then? I'd say universality. The universality of computing makes it possible to bend it to reflect and amplify just about any kind of ideology or cultural construct.

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